Tail light bulb recommendation

I am a little disappointed in the light output of the tail lights (particularly the lower bulbs) on my Tiger. Brake lights seem adequate but the cruising lights are a tad weak. Anyone have a bulb recommendation to aid in being seen at night ?

Sgreg said:

I am a little disappointed in the light output of the tail lights (particularly the lower bulbs) on my Tiger. Brake lights seem adequate but the cruising lights are a tad weak. Anyone have a bulb recommendation to aid in being seen at night ?

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Something i found useful was taking out the lamp body and polishing the inside face.. makes the light reflect around MUCH better

History?

Is there any evidence that the lower than "bright" light output has led to rear end collisions? Or that older automobiles have a higher incidence of rear end impacts at night?

I do not know of any and believe the Sunbeam taillight viewed in dark of night is not missed or mistaken for anything non automotive by someone approaching the Sunbeam from the rear at night. Particularly on a road.

Modern cars are far better in protecting occupants in a crash and have safety features like anti lock brakes which were never imagined in the 1960's. That said virtually all people who drove in the 60's still live on or died a natural non automotive death. A large number of the highway death toll then and now can be linked to alcohol and happen at night.

I drive my Sunbeams day and night, I prefer day for a number of reasons but I feel the taillights are OK.

Since I don't own a Tiger I have no idea what bulbs are used. I did however just install rear L.E.D's in the '70 Mustang. Did it make a BIG difference? not so much but it does take less power.......for what that's worth.

Are Rootes bulbs different than D.O.T (at that time) approved bulbs on merican' cars.

Who wants a bright fanny ?

Good ole' 1056's and 1157's put out plenty of candles, but they're trying to push it all thru dense aging plastic. Polishing the reflective surface does help a bit as does bleach or windexing the inner lens. Some (not all) of the repro plastic is of a lighter material. I checked out the rears on several of the ancient irons in the barn and the TR 7 was the darkest; at least the wedge butt sticks up higher in the oncoming faces. Not sure if upping the watts would be healthy for the wire or the warming plastic for that matter. You could always break tradition and add the 3rd eye in the middle. If it runs, be happy . . . . . .

An experiance

Back in October while driving to Willow Springs (TigerBlue) I had reason to do some thinking about the brightness of taillights and have some observations. It was a night dark, real world rainstorm and my vision was compromised by a fogging windshield.

Virtually the only thing I could see was those taillights and less so the lane markings. A pickup drove past me without taillights but as soon as my headlights started to catch the reflectors built into the rear lenses.. even this pickup was easy to see. But as the rain got more intense the clarity and brightness faded following even lit taillights. Still I could see them against the black.

What about low visibility in daylight hours? The relative brightness loses contrast to ambient light. As far as I know only Volvo equips their cars with rear end fog lights. We have had a few Volvo wagons since 1988 and each (current for us 1998) has a seldom used back end fog light. Turning them on lights up the brake light? in the upper red lens. Brake lights are brighter than running lights.

My take away here is if I'm driving the Sunbeam in daylight fog... don't. Your only hope is to be faster than the cars behind and then you hit someone else with lousy taillights.

Sgreg said:

I am a little disappointed in the light output of the tail lights (particularly the lower bulbs) on my Tiger. Brake lights seem adequate but the cruising lights are a tad weak. Anyone have a bulb recommendation to aid in being seen at night ?

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I raised this same question on this forum back in June of this year. I am REALLY happy with the differance LED taillights made on my 1940 Ford Coupe, so I was hoping that someone else had found a source for LEDs that could be used on our 'Beams. There are so many companies selling custom LED lighting nowadays, surely someone can come up with something. The general community doesn't seem to care about it, but I am still concerned. Until I find a better solution, I will install a dual element bulb to add two more red running lights where the single element bulb on the top is used as our stop / turn signals. Going fast & handling well are great, but in this world of bigger & bigger SUVs that drivers who are texting & can't even see over the hoods, at dusk in the rain, I want my little car to be noticed.

There are LED tail light bulbs that work in the front lens and the rear sets. there is a company here in Australia in the state of south australia that sells them. am sure you can find them in the USA.

i think it was a LED 1157 type bulb.. will try and dig the details up.

LED bulb options

Balkamp LED #'s SGL 1156WH and SGL 1157WH are designed to fit in the same spot as the standard bulbs. I have not had the chance to compare candle power side-by-side for opinion sake. But, they are not inexpensive. Most auto supply outfits should be able to order them in for you. The central wharehouse shows 356 in stock. keep em' runnin', randy

I am aware of the LED replacement bulbs, but as they run hotter than standard bulbs, they pose a new problem. All the car magazines, that talk about running those LED bulbs, warn that they should only be used with the GLASS lenses of older cars, as plastic lenses could melt. Furthermore, I have a neighbor who has tried them in his older car only to find that their life-span is so short that he had to return to standard bulbs. Maybe there are differant levels of quality of these bulbs & he just got some bad ones, I don't know, but I still would not like to melt my lenses. What I was really hoping to find was someone that had a source for a complete LED lens array of many laid out flat across the lens, that might fit our cars. They have them for all the popular older cars now, like old Fords & Chevys. I realize that the demand for a particular lens for our beams would not warrant production, but still hoping that something might fit our bezels.

LED's are in the mail!

I want to resolve some of the questions and contradictions regarding the merit of led replacement taillights. I still believe the only condition in which a brighter taillight would offer a meaningful safety benefit would be daylight in reduced visibility such as heavy rain or fog. See my previous posts on this subject above.

In the interest of learning more I have ordered a pair of Pilot Automotive LI-1157 lamps from Summit today. When they arrive I intend to install one and compare the brightness! I also should be able to figure out a way to check for heat issues!

See the lamp on the WWW: http://www.pilotautomotive.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=27411 Photo below also.

Some of what I have learned about the coming revolution regarding lighting class LED lamps for industry, major stores and homes can be summarized as follows: Relative to the Edison style lamp and even florescent tubes 1. ultra efficient energy wise, 2. ultra long lasting, 3. cooler operation. 4. whiter pure light. 5. Expensive now but ROI (Return on Investment) is favorable in super stores and other large brightly lit places.

Regarding #s 1, 2, and 3 the reason is the same. Edison lamps make light by heating a filament in the lamp to high temperatures and the heat is essentially wasted energy.

# 4 is generally beyond my knowledge and the space I have here. It is related to the fact that pure white light is made up of all the colors of the spectrum. The circuit board/transistors and? determine what wavelength(s) or color of light is produced by the led. (Professional photographers use filters to correct the color of photos taken in artificial light.) Good time to say that I bought the "red" 1157 which is cheaper $12 VS $21 for the "white" 1157. Yes it will be behind a red lens but it may make sense when you ponder why the white costs more. The circuitry must be more complex to produce white light than to produce only one color and a primary color at that..no mixing. The red lens in the Sunbeam taillight would just block the other frequencies allowing only red light. Starting with red light the red lens is redundant but it should let the all red through? We will see when they are installed. Lesson: you don't always get what you pay for! Putting a white light behind a red lens negates the value of producing perfect white light in the first place.

#5 I do not think ROI scales well as far as energy saved or longevity in such a small application as Tiger taillights. Unless you drive 20,000 miles a year at night and or in a fog?

#6 I will add the "Bling" factor which is value for the HotRod and Import Tuner market. Value zip behind the stock lens.

OK Summit confirmed my purchase and it is coming soon out of Sparks Nevada. Stay tuned for the report. Questions for me: PM TigerBlue please.

Rick

Halfway There!

Of course halfway is no where with lights

To start with The Sunbeam, being British, has a British spec lamp. LB50 in the S.S. Catalog which is similar to the 1157 but not the same exactly. Both lamps have a dual filament,Taillight and brake light "lite" independently, with the same base dimensions.

I have installed the new 1157 LED's and the taillights refuse to work. Brake lights work great, no fuss. Tonight I tested LED lamps out of the car with a continuity tester and both elements work fine when powered up. They are red BTW although there is no color evident when off. See the picture below of a red (when lit) LED Lamp.

In the picture below of the bases of the lamps, note the broad shouldered contacts of the British base vs the smaller bumps of the 1157 LED base.

Rick

The brake light of one LED installed under red lens is bright but not significantly brighter. It is easy to tell which is the old style lamp vs the LED through the lens. The LED has a broader uniform light source but the old lamp has that "hot spot" at the center from the filament.

I will take Black Tiger to the Meeting and Toy Drive this weekend. Get some other opinions about the relative visibility.

The one thing i dont like about the LED (and i guess in fairness its probably an advantage they have over the incandesent) is when you hit the breaks they go to full power immediatly and when you take them off the same.

Also when you indicate they are on or off.. they dont have that nice classic gentle glow where the light brightens and fades... i know im sad.. but it just looks wrong any other way.

The delay

The ability to go from off to full bright without delay is toted as a safety advantage (LED) and although the delay from energizing the circuit to a full bright filiment lamp is very short; you can observe that delay with the naked eye.

Most important when you need to stop NOW & HARD to let the people behind know ASAP.

Rick

TigerBlue said:

The ability to go from off to full bright without delay is toted as a safety advantage (LED) and although the delay from energizing the circuit to a full bright filiment lamp is very short; you can observe that delay with the naked eye.

Most important when you need to stop NOW & HARD to let the people behind know ASAP.

Rick

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Rick, As i said i know its an advantage of LED.. but it just doesnt have that warm soft glowing classic feel.

As a side note, a friend installed these in his MKI cortina about 6 years back, at the same time i tried them in my SII alpine. I found that the lens required a direct focus to give good light, at the time the LED lamps were like a christmas tree with lights facing each direction and they didnt give as good a signal as they were not focusing on the centre of the lens to be refrafcted through the ribs.. these new globes look much better with all LED's facing forward and would be much more effective.

Now aside from the fact LED's will light faster, another thing to assist with tail lights is make sure lens are all clean inside and i find polishing the faces of the housings with autoglym or autosol makes them reflect the light of the globes much better

TigerBlue said:

The ability to go from off to full bright without delay is toted as a safety advantage (LED) and although the delay from energizing the circuit to a full bright filiment lamp is very short; you can observe that delay with the naked eye.

Most important when you need to stop NOW & HARD to let the people behind know ASAP.

Rick

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Rick,

I appreciate the work & time that you have done testing LED bulbs, but as I have said all along, I have been looking for a LENS-FILLING ARRAY of maybe 30 individual lights covering the entire lens. I have seen firsthand the difference between a single LED bulb fixture & a flat array of so many individual bulbs, & I can tell you it is a huge difference. All of us have seen the rear of the new high-end cars like the Caddys & can see him hit his brakes an 1/8 of a mile back. With such a small demand from the Sunbeam community, I knew it would be nearly impossible to get someone to design & produce such a circuit board for our cars. Last night, while paging through the new copy of Classic Motorsports magazine, I came across a small ad for a company in your neck of the woods (Oregon) making these LED-arrays using the stock lenses of several British & German cars. Using the stock lenses, does not alter the appearance of the taillight until you use it. I spoke to “Steve” who said that while he doesn’t have a design for Sunbeams, if he could get several commitments from Sunbeam owners, he would go ahead design & produce them. I did not ask about price, but I am sure they are not cheap. I don’t know about the rest of you, but if I can buy something that might keep me & my car of nearly four decades from being plowed under by a “giggly-girl” texting while driving her huge SUV, cost is no object. I know that we have had this separate discussion before, but I firmly believe that better rear illumination will save any vehicle from getting creamed on the highway, especially in fog, rain, dusk & dawn conditions.

Steve’s website is: http://classicautoleds.com/

I sincerely hope that others on this Forum will join me, show some interest, contact Steve at 541-619-8335, & maybe get these produced for all of us.

Thanks,
Clark

Brake Light LED not impressive

I and a few other CAT Members had a look at my trial of the LED brake light. Consensus was that the LED (right side) was not brighter to the eye than the standard lamp on the left. My take away was they were very close but the hot spot of the filament in the incandescent lamp was much brighter than each of the multiple points of light of the LED.

No point in going further with these LEDs for me as the taillight element would not work in the Sunbeam socket and the brake light (not a scientific test though) not better?

Nearly full lens LED's with larger lit area should test better than the the lamp replacement LED. Maybe one of the Oregon company's LEDs in production will fit under the Sunbeam lens? Send them a paper template of the Lens and housing?

Questions: PM (private message) TigerBlue

Rick

TigerBlue said:

I and a few other CAT Members had a look at my trial of the LED brake light. Consensus was that the LED (right side) was not brighter to the eye than the standard lamp on the left. My take away was they were very close but the hot spot of the filament in the incandescent lamp was much brighter than each of the multiple points of light of the LED.

No point in going further with these LEDs for me as the taillight element would not work in the Sunbeam socket and the brake light (not a scientific test though) not better?

Nearly full lens LED's with larger lit area should test better than the the lamp replacement LED. Maybe one of the Oregon company's LEDs in production will fit under the Sunbeam lens? Send them a paper template of the Lens and housing?

Questions: PM (private message) TigerBlue

Rick

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Rick,

I just recently sold all my spares that I have had for 30+ years, so I do not have a spare taillight housing to let this guy prototype an LED-array for both the top & bottom lenses. While sending him a paper template to compare to an existing application might be just fine, an entire housing assembly, would be better don't you think? You being in the Sunbeam parts business, are better suited to dealing with this vendor than the rest of us, maybe this product might make a good addition to your regular inventory of parts. I am sure, many owners would buy this if it was available. I don’t mean to push this project on you, I am just hoping you will get interested.
Meanwhile, I have posted the same info on the TE/AE Forum to hopefully generate some interest from those owners also. Something else I realized yesterday while driving my car on a bright sunny afternoon is that even in during the day in supposedly perfect conditions, other drivers are so startled by the beauty & uniqueness of our cars, the last thing they are doing is paying attention to what those two little 1157s on our rear are doing! Again, a full array of LEDs like on many new cars of today, can be seen even in bright sunlight easier & faster than our stock taillights.

thanks for all your help,
Clark

I have to admit I have not read all the posts on this thread. In NZ when we register a car for the road, whether imported or an old car which is been restored and is being re-registerd we have to put a high level stop light on the car even if it's a model A. I put one for a 2002 Audi TT roadster on the Tiger. Dosn't look out of place, but it's postion needs to be changed to fit the hard top. If it was flush with the boot (trunk) water channel, the hard to may not interfere.
Sorry I don't have a better photo, but nyou can see it between the hinges. It is nice and low. About 8" wide.

Tiger tamer said:

I have to admit I have not read all the posts on this thread. In NZ when we register a car for the road, whether imported or an old car which is been restored and is being re-registerd we have to put a high level stop light on the car even if it's a model A. I put one for a 2002 Audi TT roadster on the Tiger. Dosn't look out of place, but it's postion needs to be changed to fit the hard top. If it was flush with the boot (trunk) water channel, the hard to may not interfere.
Sorry I don't have a better photo, but nyou can see it between the hinges. It is nice and low. About 8" wide.

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TigerTamer,

I added an LED, 3rd-brakelight to my rollbar at least 15 years ago. While this helps a bunch being noticed, I think we can do better, with LED taillights in addition to stoplights.