Water Pump pulley

Could someone measure the depth of the water pump pulley on their Tiger?

Here is the reason. The old aftermarket water pump was dead so I bought a new one. Measured, sat it next to the old one and everything looked good. Went to test install (waiting for my new Ron Davis two core radiator) and the water pump pulley is short by 3/8 of an inch to match the crank pulley.

Did I look at it before I tore it apart? no.

The current measurement depth on the pulley is about 2 3/4" or just a bit below that. I believe it to be the original pulley (big center hole).

I am stumped as I have measured the new pump on the engine and it looks to be very close to identical as the old pump in depth. I kept the old pump. Perhaps I should call the neighbor and get a fresh pair of eyes.

New take after neighbor came over. Since I don't have an original water pump I cannot measure old to new. We have decided it must be the pulley is not deep enough on the new water pumps.

Mike

water pump

A few things to note. The Tiger has a unique hub on the pump, and it is pushed back farther on the shaft, it is close to touching at back, a regular aftermarket pump for a mustang probably has the hub out to far. Also, the 260 and early 5 bolt 289 utilize a water pump cover that is slightly deeper than the 6 bolt version. They also use 2 slightly different water pumps the 260 on a tiger version does not use backing plate. The later 6 bolt set up uses a slightly thinner cover, and a water pump with backing plate that is slightly thicker. I think you could utilize the complete 260 set up, or the complete 6 bolt 289 set up, but parts cannot be mixed. Either way the hub will probably be out to far if a standard ford set up ordered, Sunbeam Specialties I think sells ther water pumps with hub in the correct place.

My OEM 260 water pump pulley has a 2.802 inch outside dimension front to back (through center hole to flat surface it on which it was sat). Per the shop manual, the distance "Front face of pulley hub to pump housing face" should be 5.15 inches for the 260 application and 5.43 inches for the 289. Hope those additional details help!

Cheers, Gene

This explains much. Will call Rick today and get the "correct" pump.
I have had this car for a very short time (two months) so nothing was known about the mechanics.

Several things now make sense with your explanations. It was difficult as I didn't have an original pump. For instance, I did think it odd the six blade fan went on without hitting the steering rack.

And the old belt was worn in a very odd way. It was because the pulleys were not lined up. There was so much oil and dirt on the engine I couldn't see that was the cause.

Also the fan blade was so close to the rad it didn't seem right with even the stock fan blade.

Thanks guys, you were very helpful.

Until the next crisis,
Mike

I, for one, would be very interested to hear how the Davis radiator fits when you get it. It was my impression that, at least at some point in the past, although his radiators were very good, they were too thick to be used with the stock shroud. Could be just old information and while true in the past, his design has since changed. It would be good to know the current situation.

Cheers, Gene

PS: Just a follow-on thought: If things do not work out with getting a pump from Sunbeam Specialties, you might be interested in the water pump and cooling article in the CAT Tiger Tales written by Tim Ronak not so long ago. He used and highly recommended a new Edelbrock pump (with the pulley hub repositioned appropriately of course). They are not cheap (on my scale of things) and do not have the factory appearance, but apparently work much better than the original designs.

Here is the latest on the pump. S.S uses a new pump but pushes the ring back on the shaft with a press. So although it is like my new one, I ordered it anyway. I then will go to a machine shop and have the ring pressed on a little further. I then have a backup pump.

Concerning the Ron Davis radiator I ordered. I had a long talk with them. It is two inches wide, two core with one inch tubes. All aluminum. There was an old article in Motorsport that indeed stated the rad was too big. That has changed.

They said if is doesn't fit send it back. I will take pix and post.

The two core makes all the sense to me. Get that air flowing. That is why I could never understand oil coolers placed in front of a radiators.


Mike

Them pumps & pulleys

Fer years, I've offered to take those old dead pumps to the graveyard for people, AND, stopped to remove those Tiger specific hubs of course. Can't tell ya how many customers (with fancy motor upgrades) have been rescued by placing those hubs in the optimum spot. Most of them have figured out by now why I ask "whadidjado with the old stuff?" keep em' runnin', randy

Got the S.S water pump today and put it on. Lines up perfect with the pulleys. Will let the sealer set for a couple of days. They even put on a ring for the stock fan blade.

Also the Ron Davis radiator. If this works as good as it looks I am in fat city. Look at the welds, unreal.............. Work of art it is.............

Mike

Installed Ron Davis radiator. Waiting on wire hose clamps in the mail to install hoses. Yes, I like wire hose clamps on certain cars.

Indeed some beautiful welding on the radiator, and I see it does fit inside the shroud as they promised.

I do have a question about how closely it does come to the shroud. It is hard to tell from the picture camera angle. It almost looks like the radiator is thiner than it needs to be and there is a meaningful gap with the shroud.

Would you mind taking a measurement of how thick the radiator is across the top and how much of a gap there is between the back of the radiator and the edge of the shroud? Obviously, any gaps at the top, and sides, are going to have to be sealed so that the fan can create as much negative pressure as possible behind the radiator. That is what pulls air through it for low speed, stop and go conditions cooling. It is bad enough that the shroud is open at the bottom like it is.

I for one anyway would be keenly interested in knowing. Many thanks!

Gene

Gene,
The new radiator is 1 and 1/2" wide. An original is 1 and 3/4". Hope these pix help. Is there a gap on the sides? yep. There was a gap on the old rad as well. Just a tad bigger gap now. We will see if the little darling will stay cool. Also I am removing the remote oil filter. In my limited thought, this will allow the air to circulate better. One less damn to block things.

Thanks for the details. And seal those gaps, like they say in that TE/AE research paper! Cheers, Gene

PS., Now you have done it, painted the shroud and fan! The domino effect has started...

Forgot to post the so-so pictures.

Thanks again for sharing all of this info. The pictures are very helpful in understanding the overall fit. Be sure and let us know the results of the field tests!

Best regards, Gene

Update

If............you order a Ron Davis radiator, make darn sure you tell them before they send it out:

A. Include the "correct" 90 degree fitting for the overflow tank and make them screw it in to make sure it fits and is not to small

B. Include the correct drain plug fitting. Have them screw it in to make sure it fits and is not to big

C. Review. .........have someone double check that these fittings are correct before the radiator goes into the box and is shipped to the customer.................

I have had the radiator installed for two weeks and have yet to add anti freeze. Any guesses why? Read A, B and C

This all can avoided by being firm and not thinking they are your friend. The first time I called because of the incorrect fittings they said they would get them right out. One week later, no fittings. So I called again. They didn't get sent. So the fellow then sent the fittings, wrong size on one and correct on the other. Guess I shouldn't complain as I am batting 50%.........................