BON's on e-Bay...

66TigerMK1A

66TigerMK1A

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0neoffive

0neoffive

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With respect to the author

Hindsight being educational; I actually gave one of those away during a 90's swap meet . . . . . .bummer!
 
michael-king

michael-king

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I am just thinking aloud.. but only 2 bidders after it started to get silly.. perhaps someone has decided to play a joke on the tiger community and they have bid it up for fun to see if the auctions following will use that as a new datum?
 
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65beam

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BON

michael,
they were probably the only two willing to continue to bid. i know we did a similar thing when i found the nos still in the box H120 grill that is in my fastback. the wife said to put in a max bid that was what could be called insane. the point is that they wanted it. the heck with the house payment this month!
 
michael-king

michael-king

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I really think that that price wasn't real.. the book was not in perfect condition.. not signed by anyone important etc.. if you really wanted one that badly you can put an add on the forums round the net and you would pick one up for 1/2 that in perfect condition.

I am quite sceptical of that result.. you are either talking about to very under educated people in regards to sunbeams ... or 2 people now having a giggle at the discussions on the various lists/boards.

Just my opinion.. this was not some super rare deal... then again.. maybe its the buyer who forked over the 80K for the black tiger at auction a little while back :D:p
 
segrave

segrave

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So if I bought a car 3 years ago when BON's were $800 on ebay and paid $32K for the car and BON is now $3400 then the car must be worth over $120K ? Maybe not.

Shoot, I should have bought $32K worth of BON's :) I could've retired, and bought another car for $32K
 
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Sgreg

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michael-king said:
I really think that that price wasn't real.. the book was not in perfect condition.. not signed by anyone important etc.. if you really wanted one that badly you can put an add on the forums round the net and you would pick one up for 1/2 that in perfect condition.

I am quite sceptical of that result.. you are either talking about to very under educated people in regards to sunbeams ... or 2 people now having a giggle at the discussions on the various lists/boards.

Just my opinion.. this was not some super rare deal... then again.. maybe its the buyer who forked over the 80K for the black tiger at auction a little while back :D:p
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I hope at some point, Tiger owners will embrace the price increase in our cars and related parts, manuals, etc. I have had many Shelby products and I view my Tiger as one of them. It is a very undervalued car in my opinion and every time we poke fun at a buyer for spending $80-$100,000 on one of these rare machines, we are only hurting ourselves as owners. It's time to "Get Smart" in a very different way and stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Our arrogance can only lead to bad things. We do not know more than collectors and we prove it everytime we sell our cars too cheap. Why should a Sunbeam Tiger be cheaper than an AC Ford ??? Think about it. When Carroll passes on, and it happens to all of us, this car is one of his legacies and expect it to go up in value. A $3000 limited edition original Bible for the Tiger is not ridiculous in terms of a $100,000 potential car value. JMHO.
 
michael-king

michael-king

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Sgreg said:
I hope at some point, Tiger owners will embrace the price increase in our cars and related parts, manuals, etc. I have had many Shelby products and I view my Tiger as one of them. It is a very undervalued car in my opinion and every time we poke fun at a buyer for spending $80-$100,000 on one of these rare machines, we are only hurting ourselves as owners. It's time to "Get Smart" in a very different way and stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Our arrogance can only lead to bad things. We do not know more than collectors and we prove it everytime we sell our cars too cheap. Why should a Sunbeam Tiger be cheaper than an AC Ford ??? Think about it. When Carroll passes on, and it happens to all of us, this car is one of his legacies and expect it to go up in value. A $3000 limited edition original Bible for the Tiger is not ridiculous in terms of a $100,000 potential car value. JMHO.
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I agree that the more the cars are worth the more things like acurate repro parts become available, the more the demand to restore them correctly etc.. what i dont agree on is speculation.

The price of tigers is quite low for what they are (and trust me i have spent what many of you guys would consider way to much on mine when i had to purchase it from the USA in 2006 when our aussie $ was .73 USD.. with shipping and taxes i paid a very high price for the car.. but that was my only option... i get stomach aches now the AU$ is worth 1.01 USD!)

The issue in the case of this book is the "going" rate is about 1000-1500.. quite a lot for the book to be honest.. for it to suddenly almost tripple overnight for no reason and on a copy that is at the lower end of condition compared to many i have seen just doesnt sit right. I really believe something is wrong on this one..

As for the poking fun at the 80K car.. as i stated about that car.. 80K for a correct original tiger.. no problems.. 80K for one with a somewhat questionable restoration and many incorrect details is just not doing your homework..

Cars increasing at a steady rate because of appreciation of their qualities/rarity and enjoyment GREAT, cars suddenly taking off in value due to speculation from people who dont give a damn about the cars and dont care if its correct/bodged etc... well thats bad news for all of us..

Just my .02 .. which these days is worth .03 US!! :D
 
S

Sgreg

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But Michael, those collectors with far deeper pockets than me, will make sure that Tigers are kept in near perfect museum condition for future generations to see while our guys will be beating on them at local autocross events and spilling beer in the seats as we relive our youth. I would love to see Tigers held in the same esteem as other rare Euro machines. If it takes speculators to enter the market, sobeit. I love my car and try to improve it while not destroying the salient features which make it both a headache and a gem. About the BON; isn't that the second edition in a row that sold for over $3000 on the Bay ? I wish I had one and now I am pretty sure I never will. But then I won't have a Lambo Miura or a Ferrari Superfast, either !
 
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michael-king

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I guess it depends how you look at speculation... are these speculators car guys or are they people seeing it as a quick $ maker with no tax implications?

If they are car people then MAYBE what you say will happen.. cars will be done properly and will be treated very well.. if they are people who say.. "hey look that car is undervalued.. has a shelby connection of sorts.. lets buy it".. give it a quick superficial resto/reno and flick it in 12 months.. you get a bunch of cars not well done selling between people who hype the market to unrealistic values.. and that leads to negative outcomes.

Look at the 90's classic car boom and the muscle car boom in the states and australia only a couple of years back.. speculators got in.. market went through the roof.. million dollar muscle cars.. holdens and fords down here chevys and chryslers over there.. and now where are these things at?

While the market is a little better educated these days when i see a car sell for top $ that has a lot of details wrong and yet it brings a price far greater than cars that are much more correct and better done i dont think that helps anyone.

Without harping on that black tiger to much.. there are a bunch of things "incorrect" for a stock car which it was sold as.. wrong gauges, steering wheel, dash and then the weird soft top cover setup.. sure.. for about 3-4K they can all be put right, but is that person going to do it? Would someone who knows better buy that car for 80K or more off the guy and then go parts hunting? or would they go buy a complete car with correct details for less.. what im saying is if top condition cars done right are bringing strong $ yes.. thats a good sign.. if cars with lots of details wrong start bringing more than the better examples that indicates people who are not interested in the cars or the community but in thinking they will make a quick $ are entering the market.

If you want a good investment go buy the ex Hall red MKI that was up for a few years back.. absolute correct car no damage ever and would have been less than that.. or the black MKII for sale at the moment for 90K.. its a MKII TAC'd and has about evey option on it and was rebuilt by people who know the cars inside out.. thats money well spent and a better indication of the strength of the marque... I just cringe when the cars are bought for specualtion by people who dont care about what they are buying..

as i said,, my opinion.. you may not agree.. but its something i do get concerned about.

I have no issue with the cars going up in value.. as long as its a natural thing for the right reason.. people look at them and want them for what they are and the fun they can have.. not because they see a quick $.
 
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Sgreg

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michael-king said:
I guess it depends how you look at speculation... are these speculators car guys or are they people seeing it as a quick $ maker with no tax implications?

If they are car people then MAYBE what you say will happen.. cars will be done properly and will be treated very well.. if they are people who say.. "hey look that car is undervalued.. has a shelby connection of sorts.. lets buy it".. give it a quick superficial resto/reno and flick it in 12 months.. you get a bunch of cars not well done selling between people who hype the market to unrealistic values.. and that leads to negative outcomes.

Look at the 90's classic car boom and the muscle car boom in the states and australia only a couple of years back.. speculators got in.. market went through the roof.. million dollar muscle cars.. holdens and fords down here chevys and chryslers over there.. and now where are these things at?

While the market is a little better educated these days when i see a car sell for top $ that has a lot of details wrong and yet it brings a price far greater than cars that are much more correct and better done i dont think that helps anyone.

Without harping on that black tiger to much.. there are a bunch of things "incorrect" for a stock car which it was sold as.. wrong gauges, steering wheel, dash and then the weird soft top cover setup.. sure.. for about 3-4K they can all be put right, but is that person going to do it? Would someone who knows better buy that car for 80K or more off the guy and then go parts hunting? or would they go buy a complete car with correct details for less.. what im saying is if top condition cars done right are bringing strong $ yes.. thats a good sign.. if cars with lots of details wrong start bringing more than the better examples that indicates people who are not interested in the cars or the community but in thinking they will make a quick $ are entering the market.

If you want a good investment go buy the ex Hall red MKI that was up for a few years back.. absolute correct car no damage ever and would have been less than that.. or the black MKII for sale at the moment for 90K.. its a MKII TAC'd and has about evey option on it and was rebuilt by people who know the cars inside out.. thats money well spent and a better indication of the strength of the marque... I just cringe when the cars are bought for specualtion by people who dont care about what they are buying..

as i said,, my opinion.. you may not agree.. but its something i do get concerned about.

I have no issue with the cars going up in value.. as long as its a natural thing for the right reason.. people look at them and want them for what they are and the fun they can have.. not because they see a quick $.
Click to expand...

Michael, I am a newbee to Tiger ownership but by no means a newbee to car appreciation or, I guess, collecting. Here is a question I hope someone has an answer to. In my experience a "correct restoration" is just that. Every hose clamp, bolt and part having a matching # to the manufacturer's parts manual or shop service manual. Right out of the box, Tigers stretched the meaning of correct with LAT options. Then of course the suspensions need a little tweaking and on and on. What is a correct car anyway. Is it a car with correct sheet metal ? Correct engine ? Correct interior ? Tires and wheels ? I would offer nearly none of these exist by the definition we the owners have assigned.. This same variance is not common to other vehicles. Norm once told me engines really don't matter in Tigers as long as they are Ford V8's. Bodies matter. How many Dusey, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lambo, or even Corvette owners would buy into that ? Seems to me, we are defining Correct to suit ourselves and the Devil is in the details. I have a very nice car. Is it 100% correct, no. Do I have most of the correct parts in two cabinets, yes !!! Believe me I like LAT stuff as much as the next guy. Nice visual and functional parts. But they are not correct unless they appear in Rootes manuals and they are not in mine. Let's face the truth, we like to modify our cars and are they better than they were in the 60's; you betcha !!!
 
michael-king

michael-king

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I have to say i think you are moving the goal posts on this.. we can get into discussions on "factory correct" and i agree with your LAT comments, engine size comments (though you cant really know if a tiger has an original engine as they were not stamped on the block, so a correct period 260 with the right casting dates with original covers would not be noticeable)

anyway.. suspension upgrades etc.. cant argue the advanage they hold,, but thats not really where we were at.. the car in question had many superficial easily spotted parts that are not right (an oiled dash, SV temp gauge, steering wheel and once again.. the soft top cover thing which i still cant work out what they did) these were just details missed because of cost or lazyness... this car was being sold as being restored to original spec as well.

you can i can discuss this off the board if you'd like as we have gone off topic in regards to the BON focus, so people probably dont want to hear our personal rants :D.
 
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