347 cooling system guidance request

cadreamn67

Platinum Forum Member
Messages
608
I am close to finishing my 347 stroker build up and am pondering what cooling system upgrades I need to make. My 260 (f4b, 600cfm holley 4 barrel, isky 260 cam) runs comfortably now around town with its stock water pump and shroud, 6 blade fan and Fairmont water pump pulley. Anything above 2500rpm on highway (65 mph) gets me up to 200F and beyond on an 85F degree day. A mixture of water-wetter and straight water does not seem to make a material difference. I am thinking the 347 is going to need more cooling capacity than I currently have.

I have sealed off the horn holes, done some sealing of gaps around the radiator and done the lower valence ducting and sheetmetal removal described in Steve Laifman's tech tip on tigersunited.com. I am told by my local radiator shop "know it all" (I will call him Rex..) that Modine is out of the aftermarket business and that the 4 row core described in Steve's tech tip probably never existed anyway since he had never seen in all his years one as narrow as what is in a Tiger. Is there in fact such a core currently available anywhere anyone knows about? I would like to keep my factory shroud and fear anything thicker may well cause fan blade interference.

I read with great interest Tim Ronak's tip on using the Edelbrock high volume pump in Tiger Tales not long ago, so that maybe part of the ultimate specifications.

Also, is there anyone who has tried the tech tip in the old CAT shop notes about pluging some of the small water passage holes in the heads to slow the water flow, a la the high reving ford racing engines? Maybe it works for high reving engines and not for cars that run low rpms on the street?

Apologies for the long post, just trying to give everyone a baseline of reference for my questions. All suggestions will be gratefully received!
 

TigerBlue

Gold forum user
Messages
827
Cool off

First, I think you are over concerned about the potential for overheating with the increased displacement. Give it a try!

Your Tiger (260 or stroker) will not need more HP to cruise the highway at a steady speed or more btu's. The added power available can potentially make many more btu's a second but you will soon run out of real estate allowing for planting your right foot. Quarter mile racers do not even need a radiator.

Second the cooling system of the Tiger is a marginal design which tolerates little. If it is not full of coolant, if it does not hold pressure or if the radiator core is partially blocked (Happens easy with a crossflow radiator use a Gano. Especially after engine work all kinds of bits of this and that will be circulating. ) then you will have trouble.

Let us know how it works out and if you have any problem.

Rick :cool:
 

michael-king

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
4,132
Blocking the horn holes, and doing the other metal work to channel the air will make a big difference. Tigers normally suffer in traffic not on the move. If you are having issues on the run i would suggest its a problem in the system as in blocked radiator or water passages... and dont forget the most comon problem... INCORRECT GAUGES! they dont read that accuratly and especially not if the temp sender is an after market one. Get an infer red thermometer and point it at the temp sender to see the difference between it and the reading.

As for the stroker.. all the above applies. If you have a decent radiator and your fan/pulley combo with the blocks and ducts.. i dont see you having issues.. maybe install a pusher fan for traffic.. and look at something like a fluidyne ally radiator, wont help much standing still but will loose the heat quicker once you get on the run.

just my .02c
 

XTIGERX

Gold forum user
Messages
501
FWIW, Mr. Gasket (NA) has a Thermocap, a temperature indicator built into a radiator cap. There are different styles and colors if you shop around. I've noticed I can tell what the garage temp. is before I fire up. LOL
 

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66TigerMK1A

Gold forum user
Messages
1,129
I think you may be pleasantly surprised just by the fact that you are replacing an 'early' engine block with a later one...

My car had a 289 HIPO engine when I bought it. The rad had been replaced with one about 3/8" thicker, a repro stock looking shroud, 5 blade flex fan and an oil cooler mounted in front of the rad. I also found out later that it had no thermostat installed. No sheetmetal opening had been blocked but a section of metal across the front of the rad was removed. Under normal conditions, this combo would run at about 200° on the gauge and would rise at least 10° under aggressive driving or slow city driving on a hot day.

A couple years ago, I replaced the engine with a fresh 5 liter that was .030 over, Trickflow aluminum heads, roller rockers, etc. ... making some pretty decent H.P. I made NO changes to any part of the cooling system except to run a 180° thermostat ( the new engine is running a stock cast iron water pump ) and the new motor runs all day long showing about 185° on the gauge... It will also rise a bit when you really flog the car but I have yet to see it pass 200° no matter what conditions I've been in.

Jim
B382000446
 

zero2toy

Bronze forum user
Messages
18
Lets Put Her In

So Dad,

From the looks of it, we need to put the 347 in and test that, as it is newer and may just have better cooling than the 260 in general design. So lets get the edelbrock water pump n make this happen :) Then we will know if we need to spend the jack on an aluminum radiator. I like the gentlemens idea of purchasing a cap with a temp gauge. The original temp gauge is old, and if i remember correctly a lil tapping on the glass makes the needle move, so yea...

Call me when i need to buy a plane ticket home hehehehe

son
 

67tiger

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
135
I'm in the midst of the same project but going with a 302 crate from ford, not a stroker. I've purchased model DER-17015 15 inch flex fan from summit racing not cheap but very nice, edelbrock standard rotation water pump with a pushed back hub for proper allignment. My radiator is a 4 row custom rebuild of the original and I hope it still works as well on the 302 as it did on the 289. What I'm told is the new crate engines are easier to cool, less friction, less heat, and can take more heat, we'll see. I have yet to do the block off of the horn holes, as I still need to create a cardboard template. It sounds like you're on the right track, good luck.
 

XTIGERX

Gold forum user
Messages
501
horn well template

This is what I came up with after looking at Steve Laifman's tech tip. The 2 horn base screws and the radiator mounting bolts were used with the plate positioned between the rad mount lug and the frame. I added additional holes to mount and wire a small air horn, on the outside face, and its relay on the inside face for easy wiring access.

I used a clearcoat annodized notebook cover and cut it with tin snips. On the finished piece make a slot with a file along the fold for a washer for the bolt located closest to the fold. In the installed part picture note that I cut the shape of the bottom mounting leg to conform to existing conditions but wasn't necessary. Make all holes slightly oversize for ease of alignment.

You can print and cut out the template fold the bottom mounting leg and position your own hole locations and other trim mods you prefer. NOTE: Bolt holes shown are only approximate locations.

Justin
 

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cadreamn67

Platinum Forum Member
Messages
608
Horn opening block off plate

Justin, thanks very much for the template. I stuck with the clear hooter horns, so I went the route of making longer horn mounting plates to pass through the blockoff plate, etc. I had not yet seen Steve's tigersunited.com article and his templates at the time, so ended up with a lot of cutting and fitting and cutting and fitting and...

I really like your idea of an air horn. I am sure it is a lot better, and safer, than the old clear hooters! What horn did you install?

Regards,

Gene
 

XTIGERX

Gold forum user
Messages
501
Gene,

It is an ultra compact air horn. 4.75"H x 2.75" thick x 4.25"W
with the air pump built in but you probably already knew that.

77505_FAM


If mounting like mine be aware of the relationship to the hood hinge.

Justin
 

tiger331

Bronze forum user
Messages
16
As you can thing, I have a 331 stroker in my tiger.
I have made no changes in the cooling system exept a better fan and an additional electronic fan. The radiator was a 3 row radiator.
The engine run in the same temperatures than my old 260 with no problems but some high temperatures in stop and go traffic.

This year I have bought an aluminium radiator in England and I installed the radiator this summer. What should I say, it is a absolutelly great improvement.
The temperature has fallen something around 10°.
When I drive with 150 km/h at the highway, the engine is getting really cold:D. (with a t5 gearbox)
No more problems with stop and go.
In my opinion, the aluminium radiator is one of the best things you can do for your tiger.

regards
Hans
 

cadreamn67

Platinum Forum Member
Messages
608
Hans, thanks for sharing your experience with the improvements an aluminum radiator can provide. Although some other owners have given me hope that my stock radiator may work okay with the new motor, I have been preparing myself for the possibility it will not. I have identified two possible sources of aluminum radiators. I have seen references to a Griffith radiator for Tigers and I know there is a custom shop in Arizona that also can make them. But, I believe they are also thicker than the stock units. I would love to be able to still use my original radiator shroud if I do change radiators. I would be very interested to know who manufactured the one you have, how well does it fit, and were you still able to use the original shroud?

Regards,

Gene
 

tonythetiger

Bronze forum user
Messages
13
Gene- contact Mike at mikeflbmer@yahoo.com and ask him about his radiator decesion. he won a drawing at SUNI for a Dale A. aluminum radiator and he also had one he had purchasd from Doug Jennings at the TE/AE United in Covington,Ky. He had decesions to make concerning the stock shroud and thickness of the differences in the two.Im sure his input will be of help.
TonytheTiger
 

cadreamn67

Platinum Forum Member
Messages
608
Tony, great idea. Will do. BTW, I happened to see that he sold a Griffith Radiator on Ebay after he won the Dale A one at SUNI. He did describe it as fitting like the stock one, shroud fit okay and etc. He also did say the Dale A one held more water. Will be interesting to see how the Dale A one fits. Regards,

Gene
 
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