toploader

kbecker

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Have a chance to pick up a early top loader HEH-G
this has the weak 25 spline main shaft, but it is a wide
ratio trans. If everything is good can I just swap
the guts into my Tiger trans and have a wide ratio
trans. Thanks Kevin
 

kbecker

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256
top loader

Was going to look at top loader tonite but owner has it in a storage unit and unit is iced shut, weather is getting warmer will probally be a couple days.
Not really sure of condition seller is just down loading stuff. Asking $200
hoping to get it for less, what do you think . Thanks Kevin
 

PITT40

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For $200, don't dick around. If it's in one piece, it's worth more than that. If you don't buy it, I will!
 

kbecker

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Toploader

For $200, don't dick around. If it's in one piece, it's worth more than that. If you don't buy it, I will!
Pretty sure its complete, but he didn't know much about it.
I'm looking at the wide ratio gear set, then again who knows
what's been done to the transmission. Going to throw out a offer
but unless it's a piece of crap not going to go home without it
just hope I get first crack at it. Good thing it's only 10 minutes
from home. Kevin
 

tiger260

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425
Pretty sure its complete, but he didn't know much about it.
I'm looking at the wide ratio gear set, then again who knows
what's been done to the transmission. Going to throw out a offer
but unless it's a piece of crap not going to go home without it
just hope I get first crack at it. Good thing it's only 10 minutes
from home. Kevin

You know it's a bargain and you can be pretty sure he does too.
Just give him the $200 and don't be so miserly.
 

Warren

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3,872
Old guts

You can pull the old close ratio set and easily sell them to a Mustang guy. A new w/r set is not a lot more then the cost of the whole trans you are getting.

Most often when I count my chickens before getting my hands on an item the deal falls thru hopefully not for you. :)
 

kbecker

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You can pull the old close ratio set and easily sell them to a Mustang guy. A new w/r set is not a lot more then the cost of the whole trans you are getting.

Most often when I count my chickens before getting my hands on an item the deal falls thru hopefully not for you. :)
That's what worries me, may call him tonite and let him know I have a
big frost bar I can chip the ice away so he can get in his building.
I'm prepared for the worse hoping for the best. Kevin
 

kbecker

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256
Toploader and extra's

Just got home from picking up toploader real nice guy was going
to make offer but he had the top inspection plate off and from
what I could see all looked good I pd the $200. He did throw in
Some 66/67 heads/crank/caps/rods/intake w/carb ect, not that
I needed them. Just for grins I'll post some pics . Kevin
 

Maliburevue

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Toploader Inspection

Kevin,

What you want to look for with the toploader is the wear on the gear syncho teeth, not the brass synchro rings themselves, as they are relatively cheap, <$10 apiece. Here are 3 examples from left to right of gear teeth condition - 'good, 'used' and 'worn'. Notice the ends of the teeth initially look like a dog house. The tips get worn down with normal use. Sometimes the these teeth are worn completely flat and even chipped. At that point the gears no longer mesh smoothly when shifting and grinding will occur. This usually happens when going from first to second, especially when speed shifting, consequently, second gear almost always needs to be replaced, the other gears not so much. You'll find the same wear pattern with the brass synchro rings.

You will love the wide ratio setup. I go one step further and install a 2.90 first gear in place of the factory 2.78 wide ratio first gear, then I install 2.72 rearend gears in place of the 2.88s. Compared to the close ratio with 2.88s, this setup gives me a 19% improvement in first and a 6% overdrive, the best of both worlds short of 5 speed, but for 1/10 the cost of a 5 speed and not having to mess with the shifter, linkage, speedo cable, bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, clutch arm, slave cylinder, slave bracket, output yoke, driveshaft, etc. The toploader can take anything you can throw at it and you maintain that factory look above and beneath the car.

Gary
 

0neoffive

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Good Advice

Kevin; Gary has good advice in previous post about the "approach" teeth that sycro the gears for shifting. Another quick exam is to push each brass blocking ring towards the engaging gear. As it climbs on the gear cone it should stop before touching the gear face. If not, it is too worn to stop the gear momentum for easy engagement.
 

Forrest39

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Gary set up (I'm pretty sure anyway...) the wide ratio in my car. With a 2.88 I really like how it goes through the gears. I'm turning 2700 at 70. Even more fun is the Hurst shifter - takes a little getting used to but I really dig it!

Cheers and congrats on the kill.:eek: -Kevin
 

kbecker

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Toploader

Thanks for the replies I Did look some at the sycro gears some showed some wear then I found the problem at least on the 1/2 syncro missing a couple teeth maybe not such a great deal after all. Of course the brass ones look new.
Hopefully not all is lost was hoping to save some money with this trans.
Kevin
 

Maliburevue

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Wide Ratio Setup

Randy,

Good point about the wear on the inside of the synchro gears and sliding against the gear face. Most synchro rings I've seen have the ruined dog teeth prior to the wear on the back side. Everybody wants to be a drag racer!

Kevin (Forrest39) is correct. I did set up the 2.90 wide ratio first gear on his car. The PO had a close ratio and absolutely hated it, having to rev the engine to keep it from stalling in first. At the time (circa 2005) I wasn't aware of 2.72 rearend gears, otherwise I would have installed them at the same time as the 2.90 wide ratio tranny. He could have dropped another ~200 rpms in 4th. That would have put him around ~2500 at 70 mph. That's why I call that setup a 'poor man's overdrive'. However, I would not recommend the 2.72 rearend gears with close ratio tranny, and it wouldn't be worth it to change from 2.88s, unless you are changing from 3.07, 3.31 or 3.54 rearend gears or installing a positraction.

Gary
 
Last edited:

steven

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875
I took Gary's excellent advise and fitted a wide ratio with the lower first gear, the 2.72 rear end with the LSD. can't wait to fit it all. The only problem is trying to sell the Mustang Toploader with the narrow band gearset. Here in Aussie land, nobody wants one.
 

kbecker

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256
Toploader

Will be pulling the trans out of my tiger this spring for inspection
and will be putting in rebuilt 289 5 bolt. Don't know for sure if it
has a posi but pretty sure it has stock 2:88 gears so putting the
wide ratio will be a good upgrade. If rear end is a open type will
the wide ratio with a 2:90 first still be a good choice till a posi is
installed. Kevin
 

Maliburevue

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Wide Ratio Tranny

Yes, the 2.90 wide ratio works just fine with a non-posi rearend, but you will definitely want a posi now that you will have better gearing. With that lower first gear in the Tiger you'll be able to fry that one tire. It's like riding a 10 speed bike and starting out in 1st, instead of 3rd all the time. Even with the same amount of strength you have, you can accelerate that much better.

The 2.90 first gear is comparable to installing 3.54 gears in the rearend, which is what Tiger owners used to do in the 60s and 70s when gas was cheap and nobody drove the freeways. It was all stop light to stop light racing. Nowadays everyone wants great acceleration with good highway cruise. I have done ever a dozen of these 2.90 wide ratio conversions and every one loves it, as you can see from some of the comments.

You can buy all the gears from Allstate Gear online, except the 2.90 first gear. I also suggest you buy the gaskets and seals. These are the best prices I have found, even less than when I bought mine initially.

http://www.allstategear.com/Toploader.htm
2nd - WT296-21A - $59.10
3rd - WT296-11A - $57.60
Input shaft (4th) - WT296-16B - $82.10
Cluster gear - WT296-8A - $142.60
Gasket set - #WT296-55, $3.29
Front seal - #100252, $1.19
Rear seal - #GMS, $1.49

You can buy the 2.90 first gear from Dan Williams. Just tell him you only want the 2.90 first gear or he will try to sell you his gears at higher prices. He's a good 'ol boy and been around forever.

http://toploadertransmissions.com/

Gary
 

kbecker

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256
Toploader

Thanks Gary, just to get things straight if the syncro gears are worn /missing
teeth I'll need to get the parts you listed, and get the 2:90 from DW, I guess
once I tear in to I'll understand more. I know a posi is the way to go not sure
what I have now probally a open dif, but won't need to pull motor to add a posi
so would rather get trans done first. Kevin
 

TigerBlue

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827
Posi?

Easy to check if the dif is "open" or a posi-traction limited slip'

Jack the rear of the ground. Transmission in gear so the drive-shaft cannot turn. Rotate the left rear wheel. the left wheel will turn in the opposite direction if it is open. If you cannot turn a rear wheel and hand brake is off? Could be a Posi-traction or some kind of limited slip.

Rick
 

66TigerMK1A

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1,129
Randy,

Good point about the wear on the inside of the synchro gears and sliding against the gear face. Most synchro rings I've seen have the ruined dog teeth prior to the wear on the back side. Everybody wants to be a drag racer!

Kevin (Forrest39) is correct. I did set up the 2.90 wide ratio first gear on his car. The PO had a close ratio and absolutely hated it, having to rev the engine to keep it from stalling in first. At the time (circa 2005) I wasn't aware of 2.72 rear end gears, otherwise I would have installed them at the same time as the 2.90 wide ratio tranny. He could have dropped another ~200 rpms in 4th. That would have put him around ~2500 at 70 mph. That's why I call that setup a 'poor man's overdrive'. However, I would not recommend the 2.72 rear end gears with close ratio tranny, and it wouldn't be worth it to change from 2.88s, unless you are changing from 3.07, 3.31 or 3.54 rear end gears or installing a positraction.

Gary

2500 rpm @ 70 mph seems a bit optimistic... Bob H.'s calculator tells me about 2800 rpm using 23" tires which is close to most tires... some 13" tires are shorter yet and even a 15" 185/60 ( 23.75") will only drop it to 2700...

I run 3.54 rear/.73 o.d. T5 and 23.7" tires... just under 2600 @ 70... I've got my eye on a 3.23 rear set which would get me close to 2300 ;)
 
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