Rear sway bar - yes or no?

Hoghead

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Rear sway bars were all the rage "back in the day" and it is finally dawning on me that it might be the cause of the tail happy handling. Surely the big motor had nothing to do with it................

Front sway bar is .875" and held by Delrin bushings
.750 x 9.5" arm length rear is adjustable using a rod end at the frame connection

What is the current consensus on a rear sway bar?
 
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Warren

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Taken off

Mine got removed and sold on. Have not have a higher speed auto cross to test on. Car not going to 107 degree Sacramento either, and no it's not a dry heat:)

Dan W. had suggested it be removed. I did not like the P.O.'s install either.
 

Doug C

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Car not going to 107 degree Sacramento either, and no it's not a dry heat:)

Just checked the weather forecast for Sacramento Saturday 103 degrees and Sunday 96 and the evenings get real cool; looks like a cooling trend is occuring.

Cheers,
 

67MKII

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Rear sway bar removed years ago from the MKI - along with the panhard rod. They were both useless.

John
 

michael-king

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General consensus on rear bars on a tiger is they exaggerate the tail happy nature of the car and make the transition to oversteer more sudden.

I note that most autox and track guys do not run them... In autox might help a tiger in tight turns.. Make it spin faster and tighter :D
 

Hoghead

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I do not think is is as simple as "rear bars are NFG" and I should have asked my question better

Complicating the question are spring rates, front bar OD in conjunction with the rear bar design.

I would be interested in hearing from those that suggest the rear bar is useless, as to what type of rear bar, how it is mounted, along with front bar size and spring rates
Same for the proponents of a rear bar.

Before I trash or redesign my rear bar, I am going to try a larger OD hollow front bar. Where to buy such a front bar, or do I have to make my own?
 

michael-king

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Maybe a better question from us is "Why do you want a rear bar?"

Just adding stuff to a car doesnt make it better .. Not all suspension was created equal...

Sure the rear bars effect will vary depending on spring rates and ride heights in the rear and the relationship to the setup of springs bars and heights in front... However the impact of the bars that were on the market amco ( forget the other brand) seemed to increase nervousness in the cars charecter.

Iirc buck spent a long time with various combinarions of spring rates heights and castor camber and bar settings annd rear bars and they still didnt find a blance that helped the overall feel and lap time .

Maybe a redesigned rear bar could work... But .. Back to the point...what do you feel you need it for??
 

Hoghead

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Maybe a better question from us is "Why do you want a rear bar?"

Just adding stuff to a car doesnt make it better .. Not all suspension was created equal...

Sure the rear bars effect will vary depending on spring rates and ride heights in the rear and the relationship to the setup of springs bars and heights in front... However the impact of the bars that were on the market amco ( forget the other brand) seemed to increase nervousness in the cars charecter.

Iirc buck spent a long time with various combinarions of spring rates heights and castor camber and bar settings annd rear bars and they still didnt find a blance that helped the overall feel and lap time .

Maybe a redesigned rear bar could work... But .. Back to the point...what do you feel you need it for??


The need is related to the stock Tiger crappy handling. Springs, shocks, bushings, .875 front bar, lowered, ..... - it is still crappy. I have learned to live with it, but there must be something better without going to a big buck aftermarket front end

I understand that Buck currently has a rear bar, hence my renewed interest

I now have a much better grasp of what is involved than when I first installed the front/rear bar combo in the late 70's and think I could do much better today.
I am also not convinced that with appropriate spring rates, and front bar; a properly designed rear bar is counter productive.
 

michael-king

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I guess it depends what is "crappy"?

Is it ultimate cornering grip and speed? Is it how the car transitions between turn in and exit? Is it steering feel?

Do you care how the car rides? Is this for mostly street driving or are you doing lots of auto-x and track work?

What tyres do you run? A good set of semi-slicks transform the cars. I used to run falken azenis tyres and it certainly made a difference.

What steering are you running? Do you have the stock setup, mg or mazda?

If you are intent on a redesigned rear bar go to the saoca site. A member made a really interesting rear bar on his alpine that aparently didnt make it twitchy.. But then again its alpine v tiger .. And the alpine is a far superior car in terms of handling.

Good luck with the r&d let us know how you go.
 

nedmar

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I removed the sway bar on my Tiger last year because I find it not really beneficial.
 

at the beach

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There is definitely a case for a rear bar in a race Tiger. The way a famous suspension expert explained it simply was "Everything a Tiger suspension does when it rolls is bad, so declare war on roll!"

So the first step was to stiffen up the front with much heavier springs and a bigger (1") roll bar.

Our racing experience with rear sway bars went like this (with a VERY excellent and experienced driver).
Put one on (with maximum length arms @ about 15", not the 8" Addco version). Went .2 sec per lap quicker.
Driver said go bigger. We built and installed next size bigger. Picked up another .2 sec per lap. Repeated 3 more times before driver was happy.

Backed it down one size for the Reunion races this past weekend. Driver now wants the bigger bar back.

By the way, one of the biggest drawbacks of a small rear bar with short arms is lifting the inside rear wheel off the ground. It's our racing experience that larger rear bars (coupled with the longer arms) reduce the roll enough that the inside wheel stays on the ground. (As I noted above, this all occurred after the front roll stiffness had already been increased quite a bit.)

And there seems to be no consensus in Tiger racing about the need for a rear bar. Some set up their car so the rear really sticks at the cost of excessive under steer. In our situation, the driver wants less under steer and is more than willing to deal with a looser rear. Most drivers don't have that skill level and prefer more rear stick. So there is nothing definitive about a rear bar. However I can say my driver certainly wants a rear bar and a big one at that. For him, the big rear bar is definitely faster. For others it might put them sliding into a tire barrier or wall, trunk first.

Buck,
At the beach
 
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spmdr

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To revive this thread...

Try this on for size...

Tom Sakai's Race Tiger has bars front and rear.

My Race Tiger has NO bars.

Different ways to Herd a Cat...
 

66TigerMK1A

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My car has a huge ( 1 1/8") solid front bar so I thought I would make a rear bar for years ago
Mine is 3/4 solid and I think the holes in the arm are 11",12" and 13". On the 'stiffest' setting, the rear definitely wants to come around so I set it a little bit 'lighter which is 892 inch-pounds ( about 75 lb.ft. ) and it seems about 'right ' I have staggered tires 245/50 on 8" rims rear and 215/60 on 7" rims front both with 4" backspace
Also have weld on traction bars , Minx spindles and the 'old' front suspension mod of dropping the upper a-arms
I haven't driven a stock Tiger since 1976 so have nothing to compare to.

One thing I'm curious about though is my car ( with aggressive driving )seems to oversteer slightly on right turns and understeer slightly on left turns

I have a bone stock panhard bar in the MK1 position. Is that what makes it do that ?? it's the only thing in the 'suspension I can think of that would cause it Anybody else notice that ??

IMG_1047.JPG
 
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