What to do with Alger

the_tool_man

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Those who know my story, know I've been custodian of an Alpine V8 conversion, <cringe> Alger, for over 20 years. Despite my intentions to get it running and enjoy the car, I've recently come to the conclusion that it just isn't going to happen. As much as I hate to quit on it, I have to be realistic about my time, talent and resources, all of which fall short of what is needed. With my wife retiring, her medical expenses mounting, and other personal life changes, I don't see my situation improving. What's clear is if I haven't finished it after all this time, my heart just isn't in it. So we're parting ways.

My overall plan is to part the car out. It's worth way more in parts, as everything but the body shell came from a Tiger. And no one seems to want another Alger running around. I'm still working out how far to break it down. But my question for the group concerns the shell, should I go that far.

Understanding full well the concern of those who have a stake in the value of Tigers, I want to do the right thing here. It wouldn't take much for someone to make a fake Tiger out of this, at least good enough to fool an inexperienced buyer. It occurs to me that I have the option of cutting it up for replacement panels. But the body is rust free and in really good shape. It seems a shame to cut it up. Do I have any other options that would leave my conscience clear? Is there some level to which I can document what I have, and establish it as "not a real Tiger", to feel assured that without herculean effort, it couldn't be used to defraud someone? I guess I'm looking for an anti-TAC, of sorts.

I don't intend for this to be a "for sale" thread. But if the admins think it is, please feel free to move it.
 

Duke Mk1a

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1,673
Pull all of the Tiger stuff to sell as parts. Then cut be body into repair panels. Will serve many more cars than a body that can be used to make a counterfeit Tiger. Or, have the body crushed.

I would like your remote oil filter assembly, crank pulley and dip stick tube with stick if original.
 
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the_tool_man

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196
Oooohhh...the vultures circle...smh.

There will be time enough for that later. I'd rather focus on my ethical dilemma for the moment. I would ask that you please respect my wishes (knowing some won't). If you cannot wait, please PM me instead of posting here. Thanks.
 

TAH_Tiger

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274
Alger

Sounds like the vultures want to make you another project to dismantle it.
If it is very far along why not sell it as complete as long as you make a full disclaimer that it is not a Tiger. Would make a nice beater.
 

DD (CA)

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Lost and Found Projects

I've recently come to the conclusion that it just isn't going to happen. As much as I hate to quit on it, I have to be realistic about my time, talent and resources, all of which fall short of what is needed. With my wife retiring, her medical expenses mounting, and other personal life changes, I don't see my situation improving.

ToolMan,

First, I'm very sorry to read of the circumstances and wish you the best of possible outcomes.
Second, I want to just support you as it relates to 'project lost,' as many here also would, that this 'loss of intent/heart/capability' happens and I'm sorry for that too. It's why I'm sitting on upteen cars, some neat, some PsOS, ALL in need of attention that I just can't provide. So, I commend you for getting out while it can benefit your family and someone else. Some fail to see that and it's lose/lose.

On the more germane discussion, obviously there are some here and elsewhere that do exactly what has been suggested that YOU do (i.e. tear it down). So, another option is to find someone who knows what you have and try to come up with an entire lot worth to sell and let them have at it. I realize exactly what you are saying about the parts value exceeding that of the project... I know of folks here in NorCal that would likely be interested and capable. Perhaps someone more local with the same intent?

Best,
Derek
 

tiger260

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425
I can understand your concern but it's not as if it would be the only Tigerised Alpine shell out there.

Bear in mind that right now, out there somewhere, it is very likely that there is an Alger being built with the intention of deceiving someone.

With Tiger prices going the way they are, those envelopes with VIN and JAL tags inside will be once more seeing the light of day.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't legislate for what other people are going to do so just do what is best for you and yours.

The shell could end up going to a known source anyway so everyone will know what has become of it.
 
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cobrakidz

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2,289
If I am reading this right the only real solution for you to be ethically happy would be to part it out and cut the body into 4 sections and sell those separately. To go even further destroy the vin tags too and let your DMV know the car was crushed/destroyed/etc..... Good luck with this........
 

leepear

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Messages
299
I would suggest you first try to sell the entire package. If you don't have tiger vin tags it is not your responsibility to do anything beyond telling the next buyer it is not a tiger and you were building an alger. Send the TAC guys and Norm some pictures and feel no guilt. I would go the easy route and you will be surprised that someone may want a nice running alger now that the values of the Tigers seem to be out of the reach of some enthusiasts. If some future owner tries to pass it off as a real tiger it is not your fault and you should have no guilt. If the body is separated from the tiger parts someone will likely still try to build a phony tiger. Lee
 

wag123

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Messages
130
Please don't cut-up a good rust-free body! IMHO doing so would be sacrilege on ANY 50 year old car, and ANY true old-car enthusiast would be horrified by the suggestion. Shame on you Duke (or anyone else) for suggesting otherwise.
Alpines are collector cars in their own right. They are also increasing in value, and some of the few nice ones are now getting well up-there in price, but still not to the point where it is cost effective to restore/repair a rusty one. I'm sure that you can find someone that has a rusty Alpine and would be MORE than happy to purchase it from you for what it IS, not what it could become.
 

Warren

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2nd

Please don't cut-up a good rust-free body! IMHO doing so would be sacrilege on ANY 50 year old car, and ANY true old-car enthusiast would be horrified by the suggestion.


I would also add that you have been a good example. Your posts have always been a good read and a positive asset to the forum.


Give it some time and don't make a rash decision. The post can be moved at any time to the for sale section or trimmed at your call.
Please hang in there.
 

the_tool_man

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196
Give it some time and don't make a rash decision. The post can be moved at any time to the for sale section or trimmed at your call.
Please hang in there.

I'm in no hurry. I'm not desperate, by any means. I'm not actively selling anything just yet.

It's current state is as a rolling chassis with gutted interior and boxes of parts. So "parting it out" won't take much disassembly. I've parted out a Mustang before. So I'm comfortable with the process. The only downside here is the much smaller (and more distant) market for the parts. But again, I'm in no hurry.

I realize my post might imply a rash decision. But as with most epiphanies, it is a quick process. My epiphany was the realization that I was holding onto this car for the wrong reasons: to not be one of those guys who sells his car and always regrets it; and to honor the memory of my late brother-in-law, who sold me the car; and to not be a quitter, etc.

In reality, there are a hundred things to be done to finish the car. And while I can do each and every one of those things, the sum total of them is more than I can contemplate. That has always been true. That is why, after 20+ years, I've accomplished little more than a bunch of plans and boxes of parts. I tried multiple times to motivate myself, or have others motivate me. But I'm just not the kind of person that can organize this project enough to stay with it for more than a month or so.

Lastly, when all is said and done, the best this car will ever be, is a replica. I've always downplayed how I really, honestly feel about that. But I think for me, that wouldn't be good enough to justify the work, the time and the cost to finish the car. I've been rationalizing this for 20+ years, telling myself that I'd have the freedom to customize the car without worrying about originality, etc. But I realized that if "Garage Squad" or "Overhaulin'" came and finished the car, I would still wish for a "more honest" car. Please don't read that I hate replicas. A replica Cobra is still on my wish list. I just have come to see that I won't be satisfied with a Tiger clone.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. But I want to make it clear, that this is not a decision I've reached on a whim.
 

Warren

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3,872
22 years

My VW has waited....
Sure there are vultures and guys like me who did not have the heart to pick parts off the MK1a I just sold, to add to my MK1, well except for the MK2 headlight rings but that was cause I could scrounge up some peaked ones.

Drag the shell to your local DMV and get a assigned and immovable tag on it. Most cars coming into California on bill of sale with no paperwork and CHP required inspection get one. I'm guessing the car does not have a title or is otherwise out of system. More often than not an assigned number on a car is a big yellow flag, like non original rivets on steroids. The shell will sell for more as it has been verified as a clean titled car and a very strong buyers objection and beat down price tool is gone.

Go to Alpine site and post the shell there. Lots of guys want to do V6 cars and they are significantly easier.

You will do well on the Tiger parts, the only thing that has suffered price wise of late has been AC filter housings:D

Nearly every part for a Mustang is repoped. We are stuck finding spares on eBay or from projects that get relegated to the facts of life :(
 

Jeff F

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My $.02 is that since you don't seem to be in a rush to get rid of it, it would be best for everyone (yourself and the Sunbeam community) if you sold the car to someone who you feel has the resources to see it through, and the integrity to not mis-represent it-- hopefully someone who plans to keep it for themselves. As sad as it is to realize that you aren't going to finish it, think of how satisfying it would be to have someone else take it over and finish it.

Has the body been modified with Tiger parts, or is it essentially an Alpine body at this point?

Maybe by the time you are ready, I'll be done with my Alger and ready for another one. :D
 

Duke Mk1a

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1,673
V6 Alpine is a good idea.

With the prices of Tigers where they are and continue to go up. Anything that is a Tiger "clone/fake/Alger/tribute/counterfeit"....whatever, can be purchased by a slime-ball in the future and then represented as a Tiger. I don't care what good intent you have and what the buyer’s good intent is....the car would eventually fall in the hands of a slime-ball. As I have said, many of these fakes are sold overseas if a sucker cannot be found in the states. When you are talking $100,000+, people do crazy stuff.

$.02 - Sell off all Tiger parts as parts and then cut up, crush or sell the body to be used as an Alpine.
 
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the_tool_man

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196
I really need to post photos, so the pros can assess the shell. I'll try to get that done this weekend.

When I bought the car, I was told that the car was a "rebody", meaning an Alpine body had been used to replace that of a badly-damaged Tiger, with all Tiger-specific parts transferred over. This took place prior to both my ownership circa 1991, and that of the owner prior to me. He bought the car in TX circa 1988. Indeed, the block vintage, valve covers, transmission ID, and other telltales match this description. The VIN tag for the car is for an Alpine SIV GT (VIN in my sig). It is titled in SC under my name as an Alpine.

Duke expresses my primary concern quite well, that it could be used as a fake. Though I am not a TAC inspector, what little I do know about the Tiger-specific details tells me that someone who stands to gain several tens of thousands of dollars profit from doing so, could find out how, and execute the changes necessary. I don't want to say more in a public forum. But let's just say that I believe this car would be a very good starting point.
 

0neoffive

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Alger/TiPine

Is the body still an Alpine or have conversion bodyworks been done? Inner fender well hats? Exhaust passages? Tunnel and shifter cuts? Some things can be easily reversed to produce another fine Alpine.
 

cobrakidz

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" I was told that the car was a "rebody", meaning an Alpine body had been used to replace that of a badly-damaged Tiger, with all Tiger-specific parts transferred over."
Sounds like it has the Tiger specific parts there--great starting point for a clone/fake/etc..... Like I said earlier--to satisfy your concerns might be best to cut the car in fourths and sell the parts--therefore no way to pollute the Tiger pool. I don't mind a good Alger as long as the owner does not try and pass it off as real. Mine is so far from original that I don't have to worry about that (tube chassis, engine set back, flared fenders, etc..). In the end you are the one that has to feel right about your decision..........
 

tiger260

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Duke expresses my primary concern quite well, that it could be used as a fake. Though I am not a TAC inspector, what little I do know about the Tiger-specific details tells me that someone who stands to gain several tens of thousands of dollars profit from doing so, could find out how, and execute the changes necessary. I don't want to say more in a public forum. But let's just say that I believe this car would be a very good starting point.

Duke is also getting very carried away.

This could be said of any other Alpine shell.

There is some ridiculous paranoia going on in this thread.
 
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