fitting a 5 speed

steven

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875
I am thinking about fitting a ford 5 speed to my restoration. A local chap has a reconditioned one from a 1993 Falcon and I asked the measurements from the shifter to the front of the gearbox. He replied that it is 550mm. I measured my toploader and it is 400mm. Is a change in shifter position also required?
 

michael-king

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CAT Member
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4,132
Steven,

there is only 1 conversion that does not require body mods.. thats the Rootes depot TKO 5 speed.

Tom Halls Modtiger kit with the T5 toploader required some slight tunnel bashing.. but same shifter location.

There was an AMC tailhousing conversion for the T5 speed that got it inot the right spacve.. but no chance finding that in AU...

There are other options.. but all require cutting the tunnel for a new shifter locaiton further back. With what you are doing unless you make a remote shifter.. you will be cutting a new hole.
 

CT Tiger

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Messages
101
I am in the process of fitting a WC ( ford / tremec ) 5 speed , I have done some extensive research on this , The AMC tail shaft is pretty much on the unobtainium list by now. And the kits which I think are very nice are just not in my budget, If I had the money to throw at it I would just buy one ....So I am inventing.

I am using a stock mustang T 5 with the 3.25 gear ratio set I robbed from a 1997 5.0 mustang , ( pretty much your common mustang trans ) , but with roller bearings instead of bushings . I am mating it to the stock ( 289 ) tiger bell and the shifter will pop out in the factory location. no cutting the car up .

Keep in mind I am just starting this process, Drop me a Pm we can talk , too much info for here . I am figuring my total cost for the swap at 500 US including the trans .

NOTE : I am not offering a kit or parts or labor, just sharing ideas one Tiger owner to another .
 

66TigerMK1A

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1,129
I've done a couple of T5's with an AMC tail housing... I'm interested in your project and maybe we can swap some ideas... My email is jim@island.net

Mustangs didn't have a 5.0 motor in 1997 as I think they replaced it with a 4.6 modular by then. The only T5 in a '97 would have been behind the 3.8 V6 and would probably have the same 'long' input shaft that the '94-'95' V8 cars had . The '79-93's had the shorter input. With a stock bell and a T5 adapter plate, the early input is just the right length. I believe they all had 3.35 1st and .68 o.d. If you have the tag still attached to the trans, I can tell you for sure.
I used the z-spec T5 with 2.95 1st and .63 o.d. ( changed it to a .73 on one of them ).. I think you'll find the 3.35 will be pretty low...
I curious how you will get the shifter to come out in the stock spot... I'll include a pic of ( left to right ) Mustang tail, AMC tail and S10 tail for reference... and what I cut out of the tunnel for the AMC tail.
Shoot me an email and we'll compare notes...

Jim
B382000446
 

Erich

Gold forum user
Messages
148
CT,

You might want to verify your assertion that the shifter will come up in the stock tiger location.

The Mustang shifter comes up very near the end of the tailshaft.

The Tiger shifter comes up very close to the front of the tailshaft.

Your plan will have the shifter coming up through the ashtray in the console.


PS. I have an AMC transmission with the coveted tailshaft just sitting on the floor of the workshop. I decided to stay with the toploader so it is available.
 

cobrakidz

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Messages
2,289
I am using a stock mustang T 5 with the 3.25 gear ratio set I robbed from a 1997 5.0 mustang .

Just an FYI--Ford stopped using the 5.0 in 1995 in Mustangs. 1996 and up were the 4.6L 3 valve modular motors with the Borg Warner T45 5 speed.
 

CT Tiger

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Messages
101
Hi all:

My typo I have a 91 Fox body mustang 5.0 not a 97 ....I have the body for sale if anyone is interested in it . Rust free car.
 

66TigerMK1A

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Messages
1,129
Here's a comparison chart of some Tremec trans... The z-spec is still available new... BTW, pretty much 'any' T5 tail housing will fit 'any' T5 trans W/C or non W/C with no mod although there can be be issues with bushing size for the yoke... and there are speedo drive issues also that can be adapted... for instance the AMC tail takes Chrysler 904 auto. speedo drive...
 

CT Tiger

Silver forum user
Messages
101
All real good info , and all points well taken . The shifter should come to within 1/2 " of where the 4 speed shifter is located . No cutting to my car . Yes you are right if you were to put the stock mustang t 5 in without modifying it you would be shifting from the ash tray , now if you are a smoker this may come in handy !

Yes I am modifying the tail shaft , moving the shifter location forward and offset 10 deg. And with the adaptor plate and the 289 bell it measures to fit where I want it . Easy ? dunno yet , but this sort of mod has been done a lot for street rods and race cars . So me the TIG and the die grinder are gonna be real close friends for a while.

Keep ya posted

I have several transmissions here ( all mustang ) but the numbers off the one I plan to use are 7E6ZR 7003 FB
 

66TigerMK1A

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1,129
I had some ideas a long time ago about using an S-10 tail and hanging the shifter off the back of the shifter housing... having the stock shift block following the 'pattern' and another trimmed down block behind ( using a 'longer' shift rod ) that the relocated shifter could actuate.
that's quasi-sorta what Tom halls custom tail does in effect... Doing an offset could be interesting... not sure how to acomplish that..I know tom's rotated the trans about 35°... stock way mounts it about 5° over to the left
There's also another tail housing... Astro van! it's slightly forward of the AMC one and about 5 1/2" forward of a Mustang... They also had an offset shifter that could be shortened.. Hmmm.. interesting.. probably more of thos left than AMCs...
 

CT Tiger

Silver forum user
Messages
101
That Astro set up looks interesting , way too bulky to fit in a tiger , but a custom type of clone might work, The S 10 looks easy to modify , leave that shift selector in place and add a new one rewards , would still need to be rolled on its side but thats not a big deal , just machine a spacer plate to do that .
 

66TigerMK1A

Gold forum user
Messages
1,129
Yep... that's the quick way to a Tiger T5 as the S10 tail housing is still available in reasonable quantities... have to cut a lot of sheet metal though and it just doesn't look right IMHO...
But.. an option for those on a budget that want an overdrive... I've heard that the S10 'tail' is so popular with the 'bench seat' hot rod crowd that one T5 rebuilder has considered having new ones cast !!


Jim
B382000446
 

Jeff F

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CAT Member
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143
Just an FYI--Ford stopped using the 5.0 in 1995 in Mustangs. 1996 and up were the 4.6L 3 valve modular motors with the Borg Warner T45 5 speed.
<off topic>4.6 2 valve and 4 valve in 1996. 4.6 3 valve didn't start until 2005.
 

Bob Knight

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207
the 5 speed craze?

I really don't understand the current craze of putting 5 speeds in Tigers? Why? Is anyone really making multiple long freeway commutes in a Tiger? Even if you are, I drove my original Tiger cross country at least 5 times in the 1980's... and it had 3.54 rear end gears. I didn't have any problems and it got about 20 miles per gallon on the highway. If someone's justifying it because of the slightly better gas mileage, well, if you calculate what it costs to do the swap, and then divide that by the mileage saving... well, you'd really have to drive your Tiger a lot to break even. And if you own a Tiger, a couple dollars of gas probably isn't going to ruin your budget. If the consideration is engine RPM/wear, well, like I said, mine made at least 5 cross country trips, and after that I drove it daily round trip San Diego to LA (90 miles each way). 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, for 3 years, and that didn't wear the engine out. When I decided that the engine probably had WAY over 100,000 miles on it (speedometer was broken for several years but you can do the math) and I took it apart for an overhaul, it was so clean you could still see the hatch marks on the cylinders!
If the consideration is top speed, well, my Tiger with 3.54 rear end gears went as fast as you'd probably ever want to go in a Tiger! I had it up to about 110 mph once (according to my friend in the Porsche 914-6 racing me, speedometer didn't work) the engine felt like it still had a little more to go, but it really felt like the wind was about to rip the top off (there's really not that much holding those things down) and I backed off.
Anyway, all that blathering aside, I really did consider putting a 5 speed in B9471705 when I restored it, just because I wanted the best and latest of everything, I decided not to after looking at the insides of one... the face width is really skinny on those gears! Seemed a little marginal for something with 400+ hp and with modern tires that might actually hook up. So, I decided to stay with the tried and true big ol' fat gears of the Toploader and had it rebuilt by David Kee.
Bob Knight
B9471705
B9471929
 

michael-king

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4,132
I would like a 5 speed in mine just so that i can have the advantage of the lower 1st gear and then the nice OD top ratio.. its nice to use the torque of the motor and just lope along the freeway at sub 3k RPM... just quieter and more relaxed.... i like the loud antics when im going up and down the box.. when im just sitting on a long boring stretch or road be nice to switch it into top and relax.
 

steven

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Messages
875
Thank you for all the replies. Over here in Aus we have huge supply of T5 boxes that were fitted to our 6 cylinder Falcons. So I could buy one for $100. Checked a US seller and they have the T10 housing for $25. All looking good. Yes the aussie T5 can handle the V8. Oops the converter to fir a T5 to a 5 bolt is for a USA Mustang. Will not fit the aussie T5. Yes I can get a replacement bell housing to fit a T5 to a 5 bolt, $899.00 .

I will go back to plan A, I have the Tiger toploader & a mustang toploader by swapping gears I will have a wide ratio for the Tiger and a narrow ratio mustang box for any classic track racers over here.

I thank the forum for guiding me on the correct path
 
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