Crossmember options

unbeam

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I have heard about an alternative crossmember option that has been developed by a local company. Fat Man Fabrications manufactures many aftermarket front ends for older cars and hot rods. I met them at the recent Charlotte Auto Fair, and they discussed what they have done. They have a custom IFS, using coil over springs and shocks. They use their own tubular welded steel control arms, with Mustang ll spindles and a special narrowed rack and pinion. They say it takes care of the Ackerman angle problem. Cost is said to be $3550 with 11.5" disc brakes. I have not seen it in person, but have tried to do an attachment.
This was developed for/with another Tiger owner, who will know much more about it, but I have not heard any other info about it. I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, perhaps they can chime in......
David
 

Moondoggie

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Looks a bit cheap and light weight to me. How much engineering and testing has gone into this product. Their web site has nothing about it.

Moondoggie
 

at the beach

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Fatman has been around for years and are one of the largest companies making Mustang II kits for dozens of cars.

At least ten years ago I spoke with the owner about doing one of his Mustang II front ends for a Tiger. (This was before either the Hokanson or the later Dale A efforts.) The owner was very familiar with Tigers having owned a British car repair company before starting Fatman. He told me then that he had already twice tried and both times failed to make a Mustang II front end for a Tiger. He concluded it could not be done properly.

I don't know how this new one came to be. Maybe the owner came up with a new approach and gave it another try, this time succeeding. Or maybe there's new ownership.

If I were considering any aftermarket front end I'd run away if the manufacturer refused to furnish performance numbers. I'd like to see a toe-in chart (It should math Dr Mayf's "perfect" spec). More importantly I'd like to see a bump steer graph with bump less than 0.010" per inch of travel. Most importantly I'd like to see a camber curve that goes negative about 2 degrees per inch of compression. Finally I'd like to be assured that these numbers were achieved with the suspension aligned with 5 to 6 degrees of positive caster (4 minimum).

About it's looks - I agree it does look light weight. Light is not bad if the engineering is good. That's the real question that the performance questions above were trying at. Is the engineering good? With the number of front ends Fatman produces, the engineering better be great.

bt
at the beach
 

Tigerbill

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While my back ground is engineering, as BT pointed out the proof is in the numbers and based on " looks" alone Dale's and Hokanson's look substantially more robust.
 

unbeam

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Brent Vandervort is the founder and still the principal at Fat Man Fabrications. I have not seen this version in person, and have no knowledge of how well it works. Brent is an engineer by training, and a car nut by avocation. I think previously he had tried to modify a standard Mustang ll crossmember, and this time started from scratch. He states it corrects the Ackerman issue, and handles well. I do not know who has this version, but if they see this and chime in that would answer a lot of questions. Unbeam
 

PITT40

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I'm a little concerned with the lower junction points. It looks awfully thin and flexible there. Also looks a little "tall".

But the price is much more reasonable than Dale's. Seeing as how I already have Mustang hub based Brembos up front, I'd be curious of the deduct without their hub & brake setup. Anyone wanna buy a QA1 double adjustable front coil over setup for the stock front end? :)

I actually was looking at one of those basic street rod Mustang II front end kits and thought it may be possible to use them with a Fox Mustang rear sump oil pan. The street rods kits are a strain crossmember and would go right where the front sump is on a Tiger. I mean, if you are going to the trouble, what is it to drop and replace the pan and pickup tube?
 

PITT40

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Going back and looking at that, that is exactly what they are doing. They have a fox body oil pan on the installed pic. This gives more oil pan options too.
 

JB66CAT

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Thought I'd chime in here. I'm just getting into my Tiger (more slowly than I had anticipated) so I'm no Tiger expert. However, I did use a Heidts IFS on my last project. Basically the Mustang II type conversion that almost all of the after market companies are using in some form. The biggest P.I.T.A. is camber. Not sure about FatMan but, most use an eccentric bolt that the connects the upper arms. You have to twist that bolt to where you want it and then tighten it in position. Then the other side, then the other side again and so on. Also, the degree of change is fairly small. Mine (7 years old now) came with rubber bushings. No bueno. Had to re-bush with urethane. FatMan is pretty well respected though and if they are really making this one Tiger specific maybe they have worked these things out. Just my .02
 

tgrrr

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The biggest P.I.T.A. is camber. Not sure about FatMan but, most use an eccentric bolt that the connects the upper arms. You have to twist that bolt to where you want it and then tighten it in position. Then the other side, then the other side again and so on. Also, the degree of change is fairly small. Mine (7 years old now) came with rubber bushings. No bueno.

What if you were able to adjust caster/camber by changing the length of the upper control arm and not disturb the alignment between the pivot points of the control arms and steering rack?
 

mwood

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I'm going to the trouble/expense to attempt to make a Tiger front end work correctly, I'm sure as heck going to want adjustable control arms. :)
 

Warren

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Information

I gave Brent a call last week and he was very cordial and informative on the phone. I like to go to the source whenever possible for any decision.
I understand that this Tiger front end is a niche project for Fat Man and am very glad that guys get involved in providing marque specific parts and options. If I was in the market it would be a option I would look into.
 

Bosspwrd

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Product doubts removed ........

I gave Brent a call last week and he was very cordial and informative on the phone. I like to go to the source whenever possible for any decision.
I understand that this Tiger front end is a niche project for Fat Man and am very glad that guys get involved in providing marque specific parts and options. If I was in the market it would be a option I would look into.

Warren -
You beat me to it . I was going to call Brent up and lay on the questions . He's got got access to all the CAD programs that does ALL the critical figuring out for him ( Anti Dive , Bumpsteer , Caster / Chamber Adjustment range , strength in area of need , etc.......... ) .
No doubt , a good product .
Just NOT LISTED in his catalog .:( MUST ASK personally .

Bosspwrd -
 

Warren

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Hope so

I am not up to speed on his research, however I do admire the willingness to one on one represent one's product. You just do not see that every day. I hope someone gives it a really good look and us a really good report.
 

PITT40

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I'm buying a Fatman front end next week

They had the same geometry under the Smokey Yunich Tribute 55 Chevy and it ran faster than a new Z28 at Super Chevy event last summer in the autocross.

I need to use a rear sump Fox body compatible oil pan and the kit is a Mustang II based. I'm buying it without their brakes and coilovers for $3300 including shipping. I'm going to adapt my Brembos.

I'll let you all know how the installation goes.


P.S. That means that I have a stock Tiger front crossmember, rack and associated for sale in PA. Bare spindles, no brakes. Contact me if interested.
 
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Warren

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3,872
Don't

Drive a Tiger with a modern front end, as it will spoil you. Fortunately old age has helped me to forget how nice Bud's, I mean Rick J's car drives with a Hokanson front end :)

I'm whittling down my collection of cars to focus on a couple. As hard as I try I can only drive one at a time, or keep a couple together and running.
64 VW convertible, 64 Falcon Convertible, 65 Deluxe Ranchero.
 

PITT40

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531
Hokanson isn't making his anymore and I can't afford Dale's. So I'm doing the best I can for me.
 

Hoghead

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So much for that idea

If only Dales was a little more reasonably priced. My Canadian dollar makes it unaffordable for me by the time you add in brakes and all the bits needed
 
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