Not fired in 31 years, a penny for your thoughts...

pinecat

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21
Hello fellas!

I have the original 260 in a 65 Tiger I, which has not been fired since 1985. (date code 1964 on front block pad) The car has been stored since then and not driven or run. It is time for restoration now and I'm gonna tinker with it. The engine is complete and still has oil in it, hood has remained on (sorry - bonnet) and air cleaner has been on, distributor intact with cap, and all hoses and accessories connected. It was stored mostly indoors during that time. I plan to put marvel mystery oil in each cylinder after pulling each spark plug and plan to let that soak for a couple of weeks before attempting to turn the engine with a breaker bar. Just looking for thoughts and pointers from some of you who have more experience with Sunbeams and their specific needs after sitting. Obviously I will need to rebuild the carburetor and fuel system (tanks already pulled and prepped for its new life) and most everything else.

One thing I'm not 100% sure about and want to ask is this: Since the Alpine engines require a specific sequence procedure for changing the oil (don't pull filter when crankcase is empty I believe), do I need to do anything other than empty the oil and change the filter, add new oil when dealing with the 260 Tiger engine? (Thinking it would be wise to change the oil before turning it over)

Ok, all thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
 

michael-king

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CAT Member
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4,132
So e friends and I fired up a tiger after a 30 year sleep. Luckily it had an oil change before it's slumber the power valve on the original carb chamber after a few minutes, but pulled and cleaned reinstalled car ran perfectly. You have cleaned tanks and lines . Change filter.. put some oil down plug holes, take off filter housing... Crank it a few times to build some pressure.
 

Warren

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3,872
Fogging oil

The Marine shops sell a spray can with oil for winterizing. I have often thought the spray would cover cylinder walls better than a squirt of oil down spark plug hole. Filling a bunch and cranking before it has had the chance to dribble down can increase compression a lot. The Marvel is quite light. Depending on the miles on the motor if low it may be a good idea to drop the pan and not recirculate all that old sludge. I'd make sure I had a fire extinguisher handy and be easy on the priming with raw gas down the carb , a heavy smothering fire blanket is way less messy then a soda dry chemical . If the radiator/heater core is not clogged up it will be soon after start maybe add a GANO filter and bypass heater core. The filter is a CAT parts item.

Nothing better than being able to channel Gene Wilder.... It's allllllllive !
 

HolyCat

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1,241
Prime the Oil Pump

I would like to suggest that you consider priming the oil pump before trying to turn over the engine. How does one do this, one might ask. After you have cleaned out any sludge and filled your pan with fresh engine oil, pull the distributor and the oil pump drive shaft (being careful to make sure the drive shaft does not drop down into the oil pan). Use a tool (Summit Racing sells them, but sure there are other places that do so) called an Oil Pump Primer. Basically, this is the same as the oil pump shaft between your distributor and oil pump, except that it is longer and the non oil pump end is connected to an electric drill. With the ignition key in the on position, use your drill to spin the oil pump while someone else is watching your oil pressure gauge. (Hopefully, it is working.) This way, you can get oil circulated throughout your engine without risk of any dry surfaces rubbing against one another. You can also confirm that your oil pump is working before trying to turn the engine over.

Good luck with your project!
 

pinecat

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21
much appreciated

Thanks, everyone for all of the great ideas. Gonna go slow on this and proceed with care and respect on this lil kitty
 

JB66CAT

Gold forum user
Messages
161
Dry gaskets

To add to Warren's post. When I fired up the engine in mine after 25 years of sitting. (and after doing all the other suggestions) the carb leaked like a sieve.
So, yeah, be ready for that.
 

0neoffive

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2,853
Waking A Tiger

Plan for everything to go wrong and be prepared to deal with stuff as it shows up. It will . . . . . . .
 

HolyCat

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1,241
Probably Obvious

After reading about issues with old carbs, you might wish to have your car outside (not in the garage) when you go to start it up. We have heard of car fires spreading to the garage and house. Also, have the air filter assembly off and turn the ignition to ON without starting the car, while someone is looking down the throat of the carb, the outside of the carb, and all the fuel line fittings for leaks. Only after you have made sure nothing is leaking fuel (and you replace the air filter assembly) should you attempt to start the car.

Good luck!
 

Forrest39

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406
This is the plan I followed a few months ago and was successful in starting up a Tiger that had sat for 29 years. There are many ways to skin this cat (pun intended…) My suggestion is to read a number of responses and make a plan that you are comfortable with. The following is what worked for me so take it for what it’s worth…

1) Cooling system. Drain it. Remove the fan belt and give the water pump a spin by hand. Personally, I look at a WP as a wear and tear part that generally doesn’t like a long sit and one that can leave you stranded or worse, so cheap insurance to replace.
Thermostat - like the WP, just replace it. It can give you huge problems if it gives up at an inopportune time.
Hoses - I wouldn’t trust them…
I think you are ok to test run an engine for two minutes with no cooling system just to see if it runs.
After you have the first successful engine run, go back and get the cooling system squared away. Consider removing the radiator and having it pressure tested. Replace all heater hose lines. Look into how to pressure test your heater core and heater valve. Inspect the engine block freeze plugs for signs for leakage.

2) Fuel system. For an initial run, plan on rebuilding the carb before you even try to start it the first time. Yes, it may be just fine but diaphragms for the accelerator pump and power valve have a large tendency to dry out and crack over time. Plus, you want to have a first hand look at your float and needle valve. I got a gasket kit from Mike’s Carburetor (no affiliation) for $25. I cleaned all the passages and replaced all the diaphragms ( mine were all shot). In addition to correct performance, a carb that has been gone through will mitigate the chances for an engine fire. How foolish would you feel to have your prize kitty-car go up in smoke?
Fuel pump - remove it and test it out of the car. That way, if something bad happens you don’t have a fire hazard on the same level. I’m not familiar with the stock pump, so look for more advice on servicing the stock pump.
Fuel line / filter - replace the rubber hoses and filters between the fuel pump and carb. If you have a stock car, be sure to replace the small section of hose that connects two section of tubing that is located right next to the starter. Replace the filter, don’t trust an old one.
With the fuel line section disconnected between the fuel pump and the carb, careful spray in a generous amount of carb cleaner and let it soak. After a day or two, carefully blow out the line with compressed air. If the line is more or less clear, run some construction twine through it to swab out the line. The easiest way to accomplish this (take it away MacGyver…) is to get a small funnel, some duct tape, and a shop vac. At the carb end of the fuel hose that is next to the dipstick, insert a small plastic funnel. Target has a good kit for just a few bucks. Attach the funnel to the vac line with the duct tape. Determine how much nylon construction twine is reasonable to get from one end of this section of the fuel line to the other. Power up the shop vac and after checking for leaks near the funnel, offer the construction twine at the fuel pump end of the fuel line. It may take a little fiddling, but eventually you will be able to get twine through the whole section of fuel line. Once the twine is successfully though the other end, pull the twine back and forth a number of time to loosen up and debris that might be lodged in the line.
With the fuel system closed between the fuel pump and the carb, temporarily install a few feet of fuel hose immediately before the fuel pump. Get a small plastic bottle (half a liter to a liter is good) to use as a fuel source. This quantity will give you about a 3 minute run time.
As many have mentioned, ALWAYS have a fire extinguisher at the ready when you go for start up the first time.

3) Oil system. Change the oil and filter. Look for any obvious compromises to the oil filter hoses. When you drain the oil, look for any signs or chunks of sludge. If there are any indications of sludge or substantial debris of any kind, plan on dropping the oil pan. It can be done with the engine in the car. With the pan down, you can clean the pan and the oil screen completely.
With fresh oil and a new filter, remove the distributor as many have suggested. Counter clockwise rotation is required on your SLOW turning drill. There is a small hex drive between the cam drive gear and the oil pump. There is a specialty tool for this, but I used a long 1/4” drive extension and a small socket. I taped the socket to the extension so the socket didn’t come off. Slowly drive the oil pump - you will hear it when it starts pumping. The oil pressure gauge is mechanical so no electrical power is required to observe a pressure reading. Let it run at full speed on the low setting on your electric drill for 20-30 seconds. Look again at your oil filter hoses for leaks.

4) Electrical system. Set up the minimum for an initial run. Plan on running the starter, fuel pump, and ignition system off the battery. Spend some time inspecting your electrical connections at the fuse block next to the voltage regulator. A few jumpers and some version of a remote start switch are pretty easy to configure so that you can be running the starter while fiddeling with the throttle. Yes you can just leave everything plugged in and use the key if you are confident it will work and want to start the car from the cockpit not in the engine compartment.

5) Cylinder treatment. This is important and requires patience. The objective is to get oil on and around the cylinder rings to prevent binding or a stuck ring. The dangers of a stuck ring are many but a gouged cylinder or poor compression are the chief hazards in my opinion. There are a number of ways to go on this. Fogging oil, ATF, Seafoam, but my favorite is Marvel Mystery Oil. Many have used this product on antique aircraft for many years with much success. Pick the product you like but the procedure should be the same. Essentially I recommend dribbling 2 ounces of fluid into the cylinder via the spark plug hole using that small funnel you used earlier and a small piece of hose when the piston is at bottom dead center before the compression stroke. Pull your distributor cap and all spark plugs. Pull the engine through several times with a 1/2” drive ratchet and a deep well socket on the crank pulley bolt. 90º of crankshaft rotation or two spark plug positions before the ignition point on the distributor for the corresponding cylinder should be BDC. Confirm this with a plastic straw used as a feeler to see when the piston is at BDC. After applying the appropriate quantity of oil in the cylinder, reinstall the spark plug. Then move to the next firing position and repeat the procedure for the next cylinder in the firing order. When pulling through to the next firing position, pull slowly. The idea is that the oil will compress into the compression and scraper rings as well as thoroughly coating the cylinder walls. With all cylinders treated, let the engine sit for a few weeks. The longer the better. I did this step first. It took me a month to complete the other steps so the rings had ample time to soak in the oil.


Don’t get in a hurry. Be sure to have an observer/fire guard present when you go for a start attempt.

Good luck! -Kevin
 
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