Rootes Archive in England - Part I

at the beach

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I’m currently part of a group of Tiger owners from California who traveled (at our own expense) to the UK this past week and have spent most of our time researching at the Rootes Archive Centre in Banbury. (OK, we did also visit a few Pubs.)

The Archive houses a half million Rootes engineering drawings.

We’ve made many interesting discoveries while being most generously hosted by Archive Trustees James Spencer and Graham Vickery.

Much of the research was conducted in what I call “the scanner room” where both microfiche and paper drawings can be digitized for preservation.

(more in Part II)
 

tiger260

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Mr Vickery is always enthusiastic about showing people the local pubs. :)

Who's is the Crusader?
 

at the beach

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After a week, our 6 person team has barely scratched the surface in our search for Tiger secrets hiding in the Archive’s collection.

We’ve all heard of the South African Tigers – but what do you know anything about the Arabian or Bahamian Tigers? How about a mid-65 plan to build MKIIs with 14” wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes? An 8 cylinder Imp engine? Or Rootes’ own design for a 3.5L aluminum block V-8? Not to mention a 3L V-12!

The Archive can use any support that the members of our marque can give it. Early last summer both CAT and STOA each donated a few hundred dollars to help the Archive continue its mission of preserving our Sunbeam heritage. This is not an easy task and any help we can give, whether volunteering or making donations will be greatly appreciated. You can even make a donation using PayPal, which many of us have used to become a “Friend” of the Archive.
www.RootesArchiveCentre.org.uk

By the way, the dark table pictured date backs to Lord Rootes’ board room at Devonshire House during WWII. It’s still serving the marque well today.

BT,
not At the Beach
 

at the beach

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The yellow Clan Crusader belongs to Archive Secretary James Spencer who guided us through our visit while answering hundreds of our questions.

bt
 
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cobrakidz

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Fantastic that there are people saving all this history. I would love to volunteer some time and go help, I bet my wife would even come along on that trip.
 

michael-king

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How about a mid-65 plan to build MKIIs with 14” wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes? [/url]

BT,
not At the Beach

The 14" 4 wheel dics MKII's were prototyped as styling mock-ups and also a few prototypes produced. One of them went to the editor of autocar who worte an article on the car as a long term assement... they had 5 lugs wheels which he replaced with minilites.

Has anyone seen the specs/drawings of the IRS (i believe de-deon) they prototyped.. apparently was a great improvement.. but as with so many other developments.. deemed to make the car to expensive vs the cmpetition.
 

at the beach

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There were quite a few very high performance projects being worked on by the Rootes engineers about the time of the Tiger's development. Some of these were IRS designs but I did not see any Tiger specific, but we barely scratched the surface.

Tom Hall and I reviewed some of the calcs and graphs and they showed that Rootes routinely reviewed the same suspension parameters that we graph today for our race Tiger (roll centers, camber curves,bump steer, steer angle, etc.). Additionally this was done for various loadings and they even did calcs for cross wind effects. I was quiet impressed.

Bill Rogers ran across a press clippings book that Rootes kept to document various Rootes racing achievements. I noticed that Bill seemed to take special note of those pages reporting his rally racing in the early sixties.

bt
 

at the beach

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Justin,

Many thanks for your support of the marque with your donation to the Archives. (they could certainly use a hundred more to follow your lead.)

bt
 

65beam

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archives

does rick @ SS still have the RHD tiger with the 4 wheel dics and 14" wheels?
 

at the beach

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Rootes Archive - Part II

We have found a large number of Tiger drawings and the Tiger section of the Archive is much more ordered than before we arrived. We have data that will take months to sift through but more importantly, hundreds more Tiger drawings have been preserved through digitizing. These are now in the possession of the Archive's Secretary.

Impressively, the Archive Trustees have already got the scanner our group brought over up and running. The quality of the scans from this machine are very good and Matt feels he can still get more from it with a simple software change.

Bill Rogers and Darrell have had a lot to do with finding and shooting the drawings while Patrick and Tom Hall have been conducting research with Graham's support. Meanwhile, I've tried to stay out of everyone's way, with little success.

In the evenings we've had great talks over dinner and, naturally we all especially enjoyed seeing Angela Dandy.

Tomorrow we're continuing our reseach at the Coventry Motor Museum for part of the day.

Right now I'm off to meet "Banbury Cross" and the "Lady on a White Horse". It didn't seem right to be in town and miss them.

Again, thanks again to those who have already made contributions to the Archive.

bt
 

65sunbeam

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Have a great trip! On your way to Coventry make sure you drive by the former Rootes plant in Ryton-on-Dunsmore. Should be a large housing estate by now-I was by there about 4 years ago and the bulldozers had already done their work. Very sad. Are there many records still in the Coventry Museum? The last time I was there they told me they had all been sent to the Archives you have been working at. Perhaps another working group of CAT members could help out at the archives following a Beaulieu Autojumble or Tiger National? Sign me up! Eric
 

tiger260

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I didn't realise you guys were still in the UK.

I hope you are enjoying driving on the correct side of the road and encountering roundabouts. :)
 

cobrakidz

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Have they considered putting some of these drawings etc.... on disc and sell it to club members---I am sure a lot of us would like to have a copy of these. Or are these for Their Eyes Only? :)
 

0neoffive

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A Side Trip ?

In the evenings we've had great talks over dinner and, naturally we all especially enjoyed seeing Angela Dandy.

Right now I'm off to meet "Banbury Cross" and the "Lady on a White Horse". It didn't seem right to be in town and miss them.

bt

Don't know if you would have time, or could swing the invite, but, The Leeds Pattern Room Museum is one of any history buff's must do's.
 

at the beach

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The Archive Trust manages the drawings but the ownership still is retained by Peugeot. I don't know what the Archive will ultimately do about future access to the scans but since our team is comprised of members of CAT and STOA and since these clubs have financially supported the Archive, the Archive may be more generous to our club members as they already are to members of the ARRC who provides the majority of the Archive's financial support.

Our team's plan is to first complete a catalog of what we have now found, perhaps listed by Rootes part number (as listed in the Rootes Parts Manual).

Meanwhile Bill Rogers plans to do PhotoShop work on some of the drawings in order to clean them up and make them more readable. Bill shot more than 500 frames. And we scanned quite a few more as well.

Later, once we're back in California, we hope to carefully examine what data we've collected to try to connect dots. We also want to figure a way to organize the scans, perhaps following the Parts Manual's numbering system.

A DVD (perhaps even including a book with it) may be in the future but that will take a little time. First, the Archive would have to find some way of watermarking the drawings to keep someone from copying, selling, or using them without permission. The Archive has contractual restrictions imposed on them by Peugeot which may limit distribution. There are also certain restrictions on commercial use. However this is not a total prohibition and the Archive is vested with some discretion as to what may be allowed without needing to negotiate a license from Peugeot. In other words, there are some complicated issues that will need to be worked out before a DVD could be sold. There's also the possibility that individual scans may be bought and then delivered by email. I simply don't know how this will work out in the end.

BTW, the British Alpine club has put in a tremendous amount of effort into documenting their car. They have over a thousand documents digitized and estimate they might have 9,000 more to uncover and preserve. It's a huge task. Like us, they also need help in their Archive search and preservation scanning.

I have to wake up in about 5 hours to head to Coventry so I'll cut this short now. However, as far as we know, they still have a number of records stored at the Archive. We'll be guided by the head of the museum so I'll know more tomorrow (make that later today- it's almost 2am here). g-nite! g-morning? whatever...

bt
 

the_tool_man

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Looks like a productive trip. I travel to the UK 2-3 times a year. I'm usually in Nottingham, but I could fly into London and swing by for a few days. What sort of volunteer opportunities might there be?

Regards,
John.
 

at the beach

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Archive Volunteering and Donations

Again, thanks to those of you who have made donations to the Rootes Archive. It's great to see members of the marque step up to financially support it.

As to visiting the Archive in Banbury, or even volunteering there, anyone can make arrangements with the Archive's Secretary, James Spencer.
JamesSpencer@RootesArchiveCentre.org.uk

Yesterday our California team concluded our visit to the Archives.

After leaving Banbury, we then drove north, and as suggested in an earlier post, visited the former site of the Rootes Ryton factory where earth moving equipment was preparing it for its next life.

Archive President Gordon Jarvis, who has had a life long association with Rootes, pointed out where various Rootes facilities had stood in earlier years. The original gate house entrance will be retained in the new development. Gordon explained that local roads sometimes served as test tracks and pointed out some trees still having paint markings visible today including a marked quarter mile.

We visited various locations around Coventry and even TAC'ed a local Tiger before traveling south to spend the night in Surrey.

Today... Brooklands.
Tomorrow... California.

bt
 
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