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Old 08-21-2013, 12:20 PM
DD (CA) DD (CA) is offline
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Default Camshaft/Lifter advice(BTDT?); Street 289

Well, the motor pull and rebuild is moving along.

Block was virgin, so they've re-bored; 0.010 or 0.020. It's time for internals decisions...

Anyway, my objectives are as follows:
- Daily driver capable.
- Street; maybe club auto-x 1-2x year (non-competitive).
- Mid range is probably most important; think 25~45mph twisties along the coast.
- Keeping stock brake set-up (improved pads ok) for now; vacuum should be considered?
- BHP: I'm not targeting anything specific. The internals will be new and the exhaust will be new, so figuring some bump from stock there.
- SOUND: Dad had it sounding a lot like the cobra 289 youtube posted earlier; with solid lifters. I'd like to try and keep the lobe-y sound a bit; but not have idle issues (vacuum).

I'm a pure rookie, learning about duration / lift, etc... but not fast enough so I could really use your insight. (I realize this is totally subjective). Been scouring the interwebz for comments on some of these, but really tough to find what people have actually used and any feedback.

My short list / data chart below (I'm open to others):

Type /LobeLift(IN-EX)/ValveLift(IN-EX)/Duration(IN-EX)/@050/Separ/Centerline
289 /.2663-.2657/.4261-.4251/250-254/XXX/XXX/XXX
289HP /.2983-.2983/.477-.477/310-310/XXX/XXX/XXX
271H /.300-.297/.480-.475/266-273/219-226/112/108
264M /XXX-XXX /.480-.480/264-264/214-XXX/XXX/108
RPM /.280-.295/.448-.472/270-280/XXX-XXX/XXX/XXX

The CompCam 271H Nostalgia is listed as a 'newer design, that keeps the HiPo 289 sound. The duration (266-273) seems mild and should keep the torque low-ish. I read and heard the Isky 264M on a couple sites. And the Edelbrock Performer RPM seems popular too. Lupe of G&R Performance (Shelby guy) has helped with pull and is suggesting RV type cam for low end grunt and ease of use. I'm just not all together sold on that, yet anyway...

The lifter/rocker internal argument is a toughie... I'm OK with dong the lash adjustment for solids (or hyd flats) kind of frequently, PROVIDED the valve covers will allow me to remove them w/o extensive work, in situ. If I'd have to tilt motor, remove mounts, etc... I'd just as soon go roller all around and forget adjustment (understanding one must be cautious with spring rates and likely need VC spacer to use LAT covers.)

For rockers, the Magnum roller tips have my attention. This also tends to tilt me towards using a total kit from CompCams...

Wish I had videos of Dad's car when in operation and something else to go on... For example, don't even know if his block has 289 or 289HP cam...

Thanks for any advice or even video/audio to help match with sound...

Derek
DD (CA)
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:55 PM
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Moondoggie Moondoggie is offline
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I would avoid solid lifter cams because you will not be able to remove the valve covers with the engine in the car without dropping the motor down.
Go with a hydraulic roller cam and roller rockers. Pay attention to rocker height
since most rocker will hit the underside of the lat covers even without baffles. I used Jesel shaft roller rockers in my 302 and I still needed to get one of Tom Halls .200" aluminum spacers and two sets of gaskets to gain clearance.

Moondoggie
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:02 PM
HolyCat HolyCat is offline
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Default Another Vote to Avoid Solids

Another issue with solid lifters is that they require a break-in oil high in ZDDP - much more than rollers. There are companies out there that do sell the snake oil stuff. However, I have heard of solid lifter cams going flat during the break-in time even with the snake oil break-in oil. Anyway, thems my thoughts.

David
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:09 PM
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hottigr hottigr is offline
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Derek, my 302 has an RV cam and has good power to 5000-5500 rpms, which is plenty for this flat tappet motor.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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0neoffive 0neoffive is offline
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Cool Camshafts Galore

For general romp & stomp without a lot of maintenance issues, look for a cam that WILL NOT required the use of heavier valve springs. This is a "barnyard" yardstick for keeping your fingers out of a finished motor. Some cams have rapid ramps to get the valves open to the max in a hurry, while others gently lift and extend the duration without dropping vacuum to minus zip. Most well listed manufacturers will spec their cams with general torque & HP rpms. Stick with marine style torque specs because of the 2.88/1 rears and there is no need to slap 6K on the tach; your knuckles will be already white above 5000 rpm . . . . . .
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:16 AM
the_tool_man the_tool_man is offline
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I'm going with a Ford E303 and linked roller followers. Simple, proven and reliable. Yes, I know the firing order will change.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:27 AM
wag123 wag123 is offline
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I agree with the others, stick with a hydraulic cam.
The 271h is a nice cam and you can use stock springs, rocker arms, pushrods, and hydraulic lifters if you want. It will give you the mild idle lope that you are looking for, good strong vacuum, and good 2000-5000 RPM pull.
The performer is a good street cam (some call it an RV cam) with good 1500-4500 RPM pull, but it won't give you any idle lope.
You don't need a roller cam unless you want to get 6000+ RPMs out of this engine. If you are wanting to do this you will need much better/stronger connecting rods and you will need to have the engine balanced with the better rods. With the stock 260/289 rods you are risking blowing the engine if you take it much past 5200 RPM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:44 AM
cadreamn67 cadreamn67 is offline
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Whatever you decide, be sure your intake manifold, carb, and exhaust system are also in tune with your power band. Smaller runners in the intake will help with the low end power, hurt high rpm performance.

While I am one of the guys that are more of a HP hog, one of the challenges with the Tiger is to get enough air into the motor to keep up with the fuel demands at higher rpms. With a stock hood and aircleaner/filter, the air flow starts to choke off from what you need around 4000 rpm, as I recall. So from that perspective, the RV type cam also makes a lot of sense.

Also, if you are not trying to move a huge volume of exhaust out of the motor, headers and big exhaust pipes really do not make much sense either. Same would go for high flow heads.


Similarly, do not over size the carb.

Just my 2 cents.

Gene

BTW, one of the things contributing to the Tiger's somewhat "hard" sounding idle is its firing order. If you go with a cam that has the newer order (so called Chevy firing order) where 7 and 8 are not together, you get a bit more smoother, "turbine" winding sound. Or so I have read...
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:53 PM
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tgrrr tgrrr is offline
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Wink Camshaft advice

If some is good, then more is better...

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  #10  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:55 PM
chirodoc chirodoc is offline
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Default cAMSHAFT ADVICE

GO TO COMP CAM'S WEBSITE AND DOWNLOAD THEIR CAMQUEST PROGRAM. YOU CAN PLUG IN BORE,STROKE,TYPE HEADS, AND THEN REVIEW HOW THEIR SUGGESTED CAMS WILL PERFORM, ( HP AND TORQUE GRAPH). THE OLD HIPO HYDRAULIC C90Z-C FROM FORD MUSCLE PARTS @ 218 DURATION AT.050 IS STILL TOUGH TO BEAT FOR SPIRITED STREET USE.
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