Leaf Spring Identification
- Thread starter sandy
- Start date
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- 304
Duke -
I found that when I looked, just can't get into their 'Spring' Catalog since you need to be an authorized dealer or something like that.
I wonder if these were a listing as a replacement or as part of some upgrade kit the PO did... Or just a generic replacement that has similar dimensions.
Sandy
I found that when I looked, just can't get into their 'Spring' Catalog since you need to be an authorized dealer or something like that.
I wonder if these were a listing as a replacement or as part of some upgrade kit the PO did... Or just a generic replacement that has similar dimensions.
Sandy
- Messages
- 304
Some follow up on the Mystery Springs.
I finally got a hold of someone that would talk to me at Triangle Springs. Got lucky and a very nice lady offered to help me out.
The part number is the 0500A68 and it was a specific spring made for a customer so she could not give out the specs for it, but it is available to a triangle dealer. My guess is that this is an Alpine spring since both ends are the same with what looks like 1" bushings vs. the different sized ones on the Tiger.
She hooked me up with one of their distributor here in Santa Ana called Deaver Springs (http://www.deaverspring.com/) and I spoke with them on the phone and they said to just bring them in they could get everything from the existing spring as well as the specs from Triangle. So some good news for a starting point!.
I also spoke with them about wheel hop and related and they said that they would help address that as well.
So possibly in the next couple of weeks I'll roll both springs down to them and see what they think and what they can do for my application.
Sandy
I finally got a hold of someone that would talk to me at Triangle Springs. Got lucky and a very nice lady offered to help me out.
The part number is the 0500A68 and it was a specific spring made for a customer so she could not give out the specs for it, but it is available to a triangle dealer. My guess is that this is an Alpine spring since both ends are the same with what looks like 1" bushings vs. the different sized ones on the Tiger.
She hooked me up with one of their distributor here in Santa Ana called Deaver Springs (http://www.deaverspring.com/) and I spoke with them on the phone and they said to just bring them in they could get everything from the existing spring as well as the specs from Triangle. So some good news for a starting point!.
I also spoke with them about wheel hop and related and they said that they would help address that as well.
So possibly in the next couple of weeks I'll roll both springs down to them and see what they think and what they can do for my application.
Sandy
- Messages
- 367
Back in the day...
The CAT rear spring purchases were a bit before my time.
And because My Black Tiger came with them, and it tended to oversteer UNTILL I changed out the rear springs,
I was not a big fan of the CAT rear springs.
SO, ..."I know nothing"
DW
The CAT rear spring purchases were a bit before my time.
And because My Black Tiger came with them, and it tended to oversteer UNTILL I changed out the rear springs,
I was not a big fan of the CAT rear springs.
SO, ..."I know nothing"
DW
- Messages
- 367
Both, and then....
Sandy,
After a LOT of miles driving the Black Tiger on the road and track, (in the early '80s) I was very sick of the oversteer.
In retrospect, stiffening the front end was the thing to do.
But stiffer front springs and / or a stiffer front bar was not readily available.
I replaced the CAT rear springs with stock Tiger springs that had more arch to them, and then added a lowering block to get the ride height I wanted.
In the loaded state, they still had some arch and worked as they should.
The old CAT rear springs had very little arch (as in none) to them in the unloaded state.
On the car and loaded, the CAT springs had a reverse arch and basically a rising rate.
Also, the CAT springs had small ends on both front and rear that added to the roll stiffness.
And they had thicker leaves that also added roll stiffness.
Sandy,
After a LOT of miles driving the Black Tiger on the road and track, (in the early '80s) I was very sick of the oversteer.
In retrospect, stiffening the front end was the thing to do.
But stiffer front springs and / or a stiffer front bar was not readily available.
I replaced the CAT rear springs with stock Tiger springs that had more arch to them, and then added a lowering block to get the ride height I wanted.
In the loaded state, they still had some arch and worked as they should.
The old CAT rear springs had very little arch (as in none) to them in the unloaded state.
On the car and loaded, the CAT springs had a reverse arch and basically a rising rate.
Also, the CAT springs had small ends on both front and rear that added to the roll stiffness.
And they had thicker leaves that also added roll stiffness.
- Messages
- 304
All interesting, need to learn more about the perils of leaf springs. I do like the same sized bushing ends on the OLD Cat springs, but yes they are about flat with weight on them.
I think one downside of a spring with too much arch would be the lowering block. I don't know if this is true, but I suspect it is that it does a couple of bad things to the suspension. I can't begin to guess how much affect, but with a lowering block I would expect more axle twist on braking and acceleration adding to wheel hop control. Also from what I can see poking around the web roll center height is raised.
Again saying all that how much would a 1-2" block affect braking, acceleration, handling? Not sure.
What's interesting I was looking at running a 1.25" (found some 1.25"x 2.25"x6" blocks on ePay for a no much more then scrap) lowering block on the OLD Cat springs to get the height where I might want it.
Time for more books and web-research
Sandy
I think one downside of a spring with too much arch would be the lowering block. I don't know if this is true, but I suspect it is that it does a couple of bad things to the suspension. I can't begin to guess how much affect, but with a lowering block I would expect more axle twist on braking and acceleration adding to wheel hop control. Also from what I can see poking around the web roll center height is raised.
Again saying all that how much would a 1-2" block affect braking, acceleration, handling? Not sure.
What's interesting I was looking at running a 1.25" (found some 1.25"x 2.25"x6" blocks on ePay for a no much more then scrap) lowering block on the OLD Cat springs to get the height where I might want it.
Time for more books and web-research
Sandy
CAT LEAF SPRINGS
At the time, elimination of the big rubber spring eye bushing was supposed to eliminate wheel hop, but it didn't. The instructions indicated, all the leafs for aggressive driving, or eliminate the one leaf for street cruising. At the time CAT parts also had heavier front springs.
RE: Fred Puhn's book, the optimum situation for the Tiger would be to raise the front spring mounting point instead of longer shackles and lowering blocks.
At the time I didn't know anyone with an angle drill so it didn't get done. Instead I flipped the main leaf for the autocross circuit (STOA tech article) which was almost too low, (tire contact with fat slicks on bumps).
At the time, elimination of the big rubber spring eye bushing was supposed to eliminate wheel hop, but it didn't. The instructions indicated, all the leafs for aggressive driving, or eliminate the one leaf for street cruising. At the time CAT parts also had heavier front springs.
RE: Fred Puhn's book, the optimum situation for the Tiger would be to raise the front spring mounting point instead of longer shackles and lowering blocks.
At the time I didn't know anyone with an angle drill so it didn't get done. Instead I flipped the main leaf for the autocross circuit (STOA tech article) which was almost too low, (tire contact with fat slicks on bumps).
- Messages
- 304
It's interesting to see many different solutions, some seem to conflict with other books I have seen. I think in one of them they mention that they want the rear spring location higher then the front for accel/decel reasons. Have not really looked at this on the Tiger but will see how they look relative to each others.
Getting rid of rubber is one thing that most all articles mention, either solid bushings or spherical, but main thing is to get rid of that rubber. The CAT springs have the smaller bushings on both sides and reverse eyes which I think are good for this car, and if making solid bushings all are going to be the same.
But I am cautious with these springs now a bit as DW mentioned they are about flat at ride height and that may not be so great. I have to put a few things back together and really get a look with some weight on the car.
Also on wheel hop I have seen this mentioned a few times that all front spring ends should get the band clamp on each front facing leaf to help the front part of the leaf do it's job as a control arm. This may harsh up the rid a bit but the consensus is that it helps.
Given that the finished rear suspension will have some very wide tires, big brakes and the motor will be making more hp then will ever be needed (well maybe not), I am trying to head off the wheel hop issues with some ideas others have tried (Like band clamps on the front of each leaf end).
Spring bars are another option, they work like the caltracs but are spring loaded in one direction. These may be a bit better but I hate bolting up more crap to the car.
One other thing that I had not thought of, since the car has coil over shocks (only shock being used) some additional spring could be put in to offset a fixed lower rate leaf spring with some adjustable coil over help, can change some of the rate and ride height very easily. (may be stretching it here).
Thanks for comments and feedback soaking it all in...
Sandy
Getting rid of rubber is one thing that most all articles mention, either solid bushings or spherical, but main thing is to get rid of that rubber. The CAT springs have the smaller bushings on both sides and reverse eyes which I think are good for this car, and if making solid bushings all are going to be the same.
But I am cautious with these springs now a bit as DW mentioned they are about flat at ride height and that may not be so great. I have to put a few things back together and really get a look with some weight on the car.
Also on wheel hop I have seen this mentioned a few times that all front spring ends should get the band clamp on each front facing leaf to help the front part of the leaf do it's job as a control arm. This may harsh up the rid a bit but the consensus is that it helps.
Given that the finished rear suspension will have some very wide tires, big brakes and the motor will be making more hp then will ever be needed (well maybe not), I am trying to head off the wheel hop issues with some ideas others have tried (Like band clamps on the front of each leaf end).
Spring bars are another option, they work like the caltracs but are spring loaded in one direction. These may be a bit better but I hate bolting up more crap to the car.
One other thing that I had not thought of, since the car has coil over shocks (only shock being used) some additional spring could be put in to offset a fixed lower rate leaf spring with some adjustable coil over help, can change some of the rate and ride height very easily. (may be stretching it here).
Thanks for comments and feedback soaking it all in...
Sandy