Need Help Appraising My Tiger (barn car)

[rjserra]

I have a '67 Tiger. It has been in stored in my garage for years awaiting restoration. I have attached a few photos to show its current condition. It is not running at this time. Unfortunately I may not be able get the work done. I am thinking about selling it as is. So I would like to find someone who can help me put a proper value on the car in its current condition. I would appreciate any leads anyone could provide on finding someone who can help me value the Tiger. If you know of anyone please contact me.

Email: oldandgrayone@yahoo.com
(714) 640-4468 (24/7) text works best.
If you decide to call instead of text, I don't carry my phone on me so I don't always hear it ring. Please leave a message if I don't pick up.

 

[Austin Healer]

I sold a late Mk1a a little over a year ago. no rust and matching numbers, but with quite a lot of repaired accident damage. It too, was a non runner. (engine seized) I sold it for $18K. that should give you a rough guide.

 

[rjserra]

I sold a late Mk1a a little over a year ago. no rust and matching numbers, but with quite a lot of repaired accident damage. It too, was a non runner. (engine seized) I sold it for $18K. that should give you a rough guide.

Thanks. That's a start. How did you go about selling it ?

 

[Austin Healer]

Craigslist... I'm in a pretty remote part of the state so just listed it in the largest metro area. Had 2 people try and low-ball me, but I stood firm and sold it for full asking price inside of 2 weeks. Ebay is just full of scammers

 

[rjserra]

Craigslist... I'm in a pretty remote part of the state so just listed it in the largest metro area. Had 2 people try and low-ball me, but I stood firm and sold it for full asking price inside of 2 weeks. Ebay is just full of scammers

Thanks. I would not have thought of Craigslist or Ebay. Thanks for the heads up on Ebay. I will keep that in mind. I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you come up with your sales price ? ( I am not too good at these things. )

 

[Austin Healer]

Thanks. I would not have thought of Craigslist or Ebay. Thanks for the heads up on Ebay. I will keep that in mind. I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you come up with your sales price ? ( I am not too good at these things. )

I based my valuation on what I know to be the costs of a quality restoration vs. what the cars with quality restorations sell for. For the last 40 years I have made my sole living restoring British cars. I do restorations for clients, not to buy and then try to sell... That is a fool's errand, and a recipe for financial disaster....

The average cost of a top quality restoration at my labor rates (depending on starting condition of the car) range from $80K - $100K. You could do it yourself and write off your labor for less... Currently decent Mk1/Mk1a cars are selling in the low $60's... Though, to be sure, these are not really "restored" cars... A really top flight car, should still be capable of $80K plus to the right buyer. "Restored" is a nebulous term... What it really means is a car returned to the condition it left the factory in... It does not mean "lipstick on a pig"....

Most of the available cars out there have questionable documentation, or are in very deteriorated condition... A genuine matching numbers car that can be documented, and one that is not substantially rotten, is the very best option for restoration... Those cars should be worth at least $18-22K. You have to remember that the car is going to have to be stripped to the last nut and bolt, so there is no advantage to it being running, or being operable... It's just not important.

The single most important aspects of a viable Tiger project are how solid it is, and if the car is really a Tiger.

Of course, opinions are like assholes.... everyone has one! I am sure there will be others out there that think I am full of it.... It is what it is. Restoration is not an exercise for those of weak hearts or checkbooks.

 

[Austin Healer]

I am currently restoring a Mk1 Tiger for a client in San Diego, and also my own Mk2 Tiger. I bought the Mk1a I sold, from a client who lost interest in the project. I made the repairs to the accident damage and then listed the car, as I had no desire to restore it on "spec". As I said, there is no money in buying and flogging cars. I have avoided doing that for 40 years and I'm not about to start doing it now!

Currently in my shop, outside of the 2 Tigers, are a '68 Mini Cooper S that I am converting to EV, and a '64 Aston Martin DB5 that was the NY show car in '64. I also own a Austin Healey 3000 Mk2 2 seat tricarb... One of the later centershift cars. There were 141 of these made, but only 136 were sold to the public... The other 5 ended up being factory competition/rally cars. My 1st Healey was one of the early sideshift 3000 Mk2 tricarb 2 seaters... one of 214.

That's where the "Austin Healer" tag originated....

 

[rjserra]

I am currently restoring a Mk1 Tiger for a client in San Diego, and also my own Mk2 Tiger. I bought the Mk1a I sold, from a client who lost interest in the project. I made the repairs to the accident damage and then listed the car, as I had no desire to restore it on "spec". As I said, there is no money in buying and flogging cars. I have avoided doing that for 40 years and I'm not about to start doing it now!

Currently in my shop, outside of the 2 Tigers, are a '68 Mini Cooper S that I am converting to EV, and a '64 Aston Martin DB5 that was the NY show car in '64. I also own a Austin Healey 3000 Mk2 2 seat tricarb... One of the later centershift cars. There were 141 of these made, but only 136 were sold to the public... The other 5 ended up being factory competition/rally cars. My 1st Healey was one of the early sideshift 3000 Mk2 tricarb 2 seaters... one of 214.

That's where the "Austin Healer" tag originated....

Hello again. Thanks for the information and your opinion. I appreciate your taking the time to write up your answer. I covers a lot of ground. You are certainly have a lot of experience. You have given me some good pointers to start with. In my case I know that my Tiger is all original so I will need to find the numbers that you mention. I imagine that you are a busy guy but if you could tell me what numbers I need to find and where on the car to find them that would be very helpful. Also, what did you mean by "documentation" ? And finally, what city is your shop in ? Thanks, R J

 

[boss-tiger]

Hope you find a good home for your car.. If there is any major rust or poor prev. body/collision repair work that could impact pricing negatively but suggest you take as many pictures and descibe as accurately as possible. It looks like it would be a good project for someone and shows well in these pictures you posted - love the hood tie down tape. My bet, you will be able to find a buyer, be patient. Let us know where the car is and any history, If you have not done so already, list the car for sale on this CAT Forum, There is a TAC certification program to verify the car is a real Tiger and looking into getting your car TAC’d would probably be a plus price wise for you to sell the car and probably for best $ IMO. Plus, the TAC inspectors would all be Tiger ‘experts’ and could probably be of help to you with eyes on estimating of value (also great networking to other potential buyers in the Tiger community – a suggestion if that might be an option for you). Plenty of us on the forum to ask any questions. You will be asked often for VIN plate information FYI (so be prepared)

 

[Austin Healer]

Hello again. Thanks for the information and your opinion. I appreciate your taking the time to write up your answer. I covers a lot of ground. You are certainly have a lot of experience. You have given me some good pointers to start with. In my case I know that my Tiger is all original so I will need to find the numbers that you mention. I imagine that you are a busy guy but if you could tell me what numbers I need to find and where on the car to find them that would be very helpful. Also, what did you mean by "documentation" ? And finally, what city is your shop in ? Thanks, R J

Obviously the chassis plate and the JAL tag on the RH side of the scuttle is the starting point. I can see the valve cover label on the LH valve cover, it's engine number should match the one listed on the chassis tag. There is also a tag on the main gearbox case right at the flange for the bellhousing and the rear axle is stamped on the bottom of the centersection. Sometimes this stamping can be hard to make out. Lastly, the keys are numbered. If you have the original keys, the ignition will either be an ST or RM code (most commonly, RM). The trunk and cubby box will be an FS code. The trunk key number is also stamped on the bracket that the trunk lock is riveted to. The door locks are also stamped, but the handle must be removed to see it. It appears there are remains of the original paint under the hood (Mediterranean blue), the color code listed on the chassis plate should read "100". All of the above information can be found in the original Jensen ledgers, except for the color code which was only very rarely noted.

You can obtain all of the information pertaining to your specific chassis number from the Coventry Transport Museum, or the Rootes Achieve Trust. These are separate entities and you can easily find them on the internet. These will not "authenticate" the car like a Tac inspection would, but they will tell you if, in fact, it is really a numbers matching car.

I restored a prototype Tiger several years ago and I contacted the Coventry Transport Museum. They were quite helpful and immediately sent me scans of the relevant records via e-mail. There was a small fee that i paid by either Paypal, or credit card... I can't remember which.

The suggestion of having the car authenticated (Tac'd) is also a good one. Having a TAC certificate gives a potential buyer comfort in knowing that they are not buying a converted Alpine! I have had the last 2 Tigers I restored here authenticated. The charge was only $25 (each), but I had to trailer the cars to have them inspected which was a 500 mile round trip.

I am located in Okanogan, Wa. about the center of the state, 50 miles south of the Canadian border.

 

[rjserra]

Hope you find a good home for your car.. If there is any major rust or poor prev. body/collision repair work that could impact pricing negatively but suggest you take as many pictures and descibe as accurately as possible. It looks like it would be a good project for someone and shows well in these pictures you posted - love the hood tie down tape. My bet, you will be able to find a buyer, be patient. Let us know where the car is and any history, If you have not done so already, list the car for sale on this CAT Forum, There is a TAC certification program to verify the car is a real Tiger and looking into getting your car TAC’d would probably be a plus price wise for you to sell the car and probably for best $ IMO. Plus, the TAC inspectors would all be Tiger ‘experts’ and could probably be of help to you with eyes on estimating of value (also great networking to other potential buyers in the Tiger community – a suggestion if that might be an option for you). Plenty of us on the forum to ask any questions. You will be asked often for VIN plate information FYI (so be prepared)

Hi Boss-Tiger, Thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate your taking the time to write to me. I will need to follow up on all of your suggestions. Can you tell me how I can contact the TAC certification program ? That sounds like a good place to start just to verify that the car is authentic. I will also check out the CAT forum to see about listing it but I would expect that I would need to have a sales price first.

 

[rjserra]

Obviously the chassis plate and the JAL tag on the RH side of the scuttle is the starting point. I can see the valve cover label on the LH valve cover, it's engine number should match the one listed on the chassis tag. There is also a tag on the main gearbox case right at the flange for the bellhousing and the rear axle is stamped on the bottom of the centersection. Sometimes this stamping can be hard to make out. Lastly, the keys are numbered. If you have the original keys, the ignition will either be an ST or RM code (most commonly, RM). The trunk and cubby box will be an FS code. The trunk key number is also stamped on the bracket that the trunk lock is riveted to. The door locks are also stamped, but the handle must be removed to see it. It appears there are remains of the original paint under the hood (Mediterranean blue), the color code listed on the chassis plate should read "100". All of the above information can be found in the original Jensen ledgers, except for the color code which was only very rarely noted.

You can obtain all of the information pertaining to your specific chassis number from the Coventry Transport Museum, or the Rootes Achieve Trust. These are separate entities and you can easily find them on the internet. These will not "authenticate" the car like a Tac inspection would, but they will tell you if, in fact, it is really a numbers matching car.

I restored a prototype Tiger several years ago and I contacted the Coventry Transport Museum. They were quite helpful and immediately sent me scans of the relevant records via e-mail. There was a small fee that i paid by either Paypal, or credit card... I can't remember which.

The suggestion of having the car authenticated (Tac'd) is also a good one. Having a TAC certificate gives a potential buyer comfort in knowing that they are not buying a converted Alpine! I have had the last 2 Tigers I restored here authenticated. The charge was only $25 (each), but I had to trailer the cars to have them inspected which was a 500 mile round trip.

I am located in Okanogan, Wa. about the center of the state, 50 miles south of the Canadian border.

Good Morning Austin Healer, Thanks for the very thorough write up regarding identification numbers. I have an inquiry in with Rootes. I may also check in with Coventry. I have checked the numbers on the VIN plate and the valve cover and they match so that is good. I did find the JAL number which fortunately is still on the car. I will see if I can find the tag on the transmission and the number stamped on the rear end. The VIN tag does show the color number is 100 as you suspected so the original color was Mediterranean Blue as you mentioned. I have a set of original keys and the ignition key starts with RM as you suspected. The trunk key starts with FS.

Getting the car authenticated is a good idea and I will look into getting that done. It's too bad you are up in WA. It would be great to have you look at the car and make an assessment but unfortunately you are 1,200 miles away and that is too far. Hope all goes well for you and thanks again for the help.

 

[boss-tiger]

Here is a link describing Sunbeam Tiger TAC Program : https://sunbeamtiger.org/index.php/tac/program. Basically a 3 person TAC team needs to physically inspects your car. Location and availability is key. I would reach out tac@sunbeamtiger.org to see if a TAC team is close to you to inspect your car. This will probalby not be of help, but we do have a TAC team in Denver CO. Also, most major Sunbeam events will have a TAC inspection scheduled such as Tigers United in Sonoma CA this June 14 - 19th, more info here : https://sunbeamtiger.org/index.php/22-event/103-tigers-united-xli. If you can make the Sonoma event it would be a great place also to market the car

 

[Austin Healer]

Good Morning Austin Healer, Thanks for the very thorough write up regarding identification numbers. I have an inquiry in with Rootes. I may also check in with Coventry. I have checked the numbers on the VIN plate and the valve cover and they match so that is good. I did find the JAL number which fortunately is still on the car. I will see if I can find the tag on the transmission and the number stamped on the rear end. The VIN tag does show the color number is 100 as you suspected so the original color was Mediterranean Blue as you mentioned. I have a set of original keys and the ignition key starts with RM as you suspected. The trunk key starts with FS.

Getting the car authenticated is a good idea and I will look into getting that done. It's too bad you are up in WA. It would be great to have you look at the car and make an assessment but unfortunately you are 1,200 miles away and that is too far. Hope all goes well for you and thanks again for the help.

you're very welcome!

 

[rjserra]

Here is a link describing Sunbeam Tiger TAC Program : https://sunbeamtiger.org/index.php/tac/program. Basically a 3 person TAC team needs to physically inspects your car. Location and availability is key. I would reach out tac@sunbeamtiger.org to see if a TAC team is close to you to inspect your car. This will probalby not be of help, but we do have a TAC team in Denver CO. Also, most major Sunbeam events will have a TAC inspection scheduled such as Tigers United in Sonoma CA this June 14 - 19th, more info here : https://sunbeamtiger.org/index.php/22-event/103-tigers-united-xli. If you can make the Sonoma event it would be a great place also to market the car

Hi Boss Tiger, Thanks. I am in Southern California and there is a team in this area. So I will check in with their procedure and schedule and see how I can arrange for an inspection. R J

 

[rjserra]

you're very welcome!

Hi Sean,
In one of your responses you mentioned that you might be able to look in your ledger to see if you could find some information on my Tiger if I provided the VIN and JAL numbers. I found those. So, I have attached photos of the ID plates that I have found so far. Unfortunatley I have not been able to get under the Tiger yet to get photos of the transmission tag and the rear end number. I will get it jacked up soon I hope. But in the mena time I thought that if you had a free moment some time you could take a look in your ledger and see what was there I would appreciate it. I have attached photos of the ID plates that I have found already. Regards, R J