New spreadsheet resources by Brian Glenn

[theo_s]

Some of you might have noticed a couple of threads a couple of days ago to notify viewers about some spreadsheets I put into the Resources section. I pulled those down because there was an issue with them, but I've now resolved it and you can check these out:

https://www.catmbr.org/cat-forum/resources/spreadsheet-of-tiger-production-chronology.43/

https://www.catmbr.org/cat-forum/resources/spreadsheet-of-production-changes-1964-1967.42/

Thanks again to Brian for pulling this information together in a condensed way.

 

[Austin Healer]

noted that there is a section for cars with the C6 stamping (5 of them) on the vin tag. what's it signify??

 

[mtnindy]

noted that there is a section for cars with the C6 stamping (5 of them) on the vin tag. what's it signify??

The "C6" is stamped on several VIN tags. I wrote an article that appeared in the 7/8-2021 issue of Tiger Tales. In short, they appear to be a mechanism used by Canada motor vehicles department to ensure that 1966 model cars were not sold by dealers as 1967 models.

 

[Austin Healer]

The "C6" is stamped on several VIN tags. I wrote an article that appeared in the 7/8-2021 issue of Tiger Tales. In short, they appear to be a mechanism used by Canada motor vehicles department to ensure that 1966 model cars were not sold by dealers as 1967 models.

I would have expected a lot more instances of seeing this, if that were the case. So far only 5 cars have been recorded as marked with the "C6" stamp. B9479975PPLRXFE was actually manufactured in July 1965, yet it has the C6 stamping. I assume since it wasn't sent to Canada (Ontario) until 1966.

You see a lot of the California supplemental year of manufacture tags (SUN-year of manufacture) tags. BMC also had them on cars imported to California. They were BMC- year of manufacture. In both cases it was just the last 2 digits of the year. These are black plastic tags with white silk screened characters...

I have quite a few Canadian pals with Tigers and their cars are all Canadian market sales with no such marking on their VIN tags... what gives? Not trying to be argumentative, but.... there are so few of these recorded. they all seem to be "C6" with no instances of C4, C5 or C7....

In fact, I just bought a Mk2 originally delivered in Sarnia, Ontario. There is no indication on the vin tag that it is a Canadian spec car.

 

[Warren]

Lots of old guys have stories...
When I got my first Tiger well let's just say it had issues. I contacted a fellow on eBay and he had some bits for sale. Well that guy was Chuck Daly CAT member no. 2. Well he invited me over and there was his MK2 and MK1A both with trophy shop machine engraved tags.
The printing was some type of LaserJet ink. When he told me the cars were for sale I said gee I think you better put the original tags back on. To shorten the story that MK2 tag according to Chuck was imported into Canada because it's cut off date forced it to go there. There was no C6 on that tag. As I recall Chuck got the car out of Canada very early in its life.

 

[Austin Healer]

Lots of old guys have stories...
When I got my first Tiger well let's just say it had issues. I contacted a fellow on eBay and he had some bits for sale. Well that guy was Chuck Daly CAT member no. 2. Well he invited me over and there was his MK2 and MK1A both with trophy shop machine engraved tags.
The printing was some type of LaserJet ink. When he told me the cars were for sale I said gee I think you better put the original tags back on. To shorten the story that MK2 tag according to Chuck was imported into Canada because it's cut off date forced it to go there. There was no C6 on that tag. As I recall Chuck got the car out of Canada very early in its life.

I agree.... My newly acquired Mk2 has a complete history, going back to it's original sale in Ontario (Sarnia). B382100463LRXFE was made in Apr. 1967 and sold in Sarnia in June. The car was wrecked in 1972 and has been off the road ever since. I recently had email correspondence with the 2nd owner who said he stupidly loaned it to a friend who drove it into a tree.... Ron Stien's brother Wolfgang bought it, but never did anything to it. I bought the car last fall.... just about ready to have the completed shell dipped.

There are no supplemental additional stampings on the vin tag. It's the original tag, and it had never been off the car until I took it off. (because dipping is not kind to aluminum) I have personally examined a half dozen Canadian cars, and none of them were stamped either...

I'm sure that importation into Canada has something to do with the "C6" stamping, just not sure what it is. I was told by a couple of people that it signified a special purpose vehicle... Like a special display, or show, vehicle....

B9479975PPLRXFE was also sent to Ontario, Canada after Rootes was finished with it. I bought it from Ron Stien as well... He seems to be getting a lot of money from me over the years!

 

[Warren]

If you look at Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
AKA F.M.V.S.S. for 1967 vehicles as I understand it.
The vehicley coming into The United States must comply to those standards and built before when those standards took effect. I'm not sure if it's 3 months into 1967 or 6 months. In any case you can look at all of the 1967 vehicles that came with seat belts dual master cylinders etc. etc. They obviously complied.
Tiger's didn't have any of these necessitating them being dropped into Canada because they couldn't be imported in the United States primarily. Possibly those C6 cars were built after the FMVSS date. That would explain why Chuck's car was the last one imported into Canada and then found its way here soon thereafter and into his hands. Unfortunately Chuck is no longer with us as well as his principal mechanic Paul Riesentz. Maybe Dan W. has more memories of Chuck's car as he was the local wrench for hire for Chuck. I've always thought those safety standards were another nail in the Tigers coffin...

 

[Austin Healer]

Nope.. all these vehicles needed WERE the capability for seat belt mounts and that was enacted into law in 1965. In fact BMC cars revised their VIN tags to state that they were in compliance with DOT requirements (In mid 1965). Tigers (and Alpines) have mounts for lap belts on the floors and shoulder belts on the rear wheel arches... so they were FULLY compliant with US DOT requirements.... Most British manufacturers saw these requirements well in advance and actually started incorporating seat belt mounts in their cars by mid 1961.

As for dual circuit master cylinders... I can't think of ANY British car that had these before the 1968/69 model year (outside of the Aston Martin DB5 which had 2 brake boosters). Certainly no Big Healey had them and they were imported right up to the end of 1967... MGB's as well...

 

[0neoffive]

Nope.. all these vehicles needed WERE the capability for seat belt mounts and that was enacted into law in 1965. In fact BMC cars revised their VIN tags to state that they were in compliance with DOT requirements (In mid 1965). Tigers (and Alpines) have mounts for lap belts on the floors and shoulder belts on the rear wheel arches... so they were FULLY compliant with US DOT requirements.... Most British manufacturers saw these requirements well in advance and actually started incorporating seat belt mounts in their cars by mid 1961.

As for dual circuit master cylinders... I can't think of ANY British car that had these before the 1968/69 model year (outside of the Aston Martin DB5 which had 2 brake boosters). Certainly no Big Healey had them and they were imported right up to the end of 1967... MGB's as well...

The Daimler's had the twin booster trick. I did a couple for a Dubai Sheik .

 

[Warren]

Every VW in 1967 had dual master cylinders. If you look at the changes on their cars you'll see that every year adds things. Collapsible steering collums padded horn buttons and dashes.
Think of the knives on the steering wheel, I mean horn ring. Yeah sure the seat belts were there well before as they were in my 62 Volvo 122S.
Long ago I could find the yearly NHTSA change orders and compared them to the VW changes. They worked tirelessly to make their cars comply until smog rules killed the bug in 77. We used to call the cars fuel infected not fuel injected.
Look to Hollywood and Hitchcock to the cut brake line murder that really popularized the need for dual master cylinders.

 

[Austin Healer]

Every VW in 1967 had dual master cylinders. If you look at the changes on their cars you'll see that every year adds things. Collapsible steering collums padded horn buttons and dashes.
Think of the knives on the steering wheel, I mean horn ring. Yeah sure the seat belts were there well before as they were in my 62 Volvo 122S.
Long ago I could find the yearly NHTSA change orders and compared them to the VW changes. They worked tirelessly to make their cars comply until smog rules killed the bug in 77. We used to call the cars fuel infected not fuel injected.
Look to Hollywood and Hitchcock to the cut brake line murder that really popularized the need for dual master cylinders.

It's like BMC getting rid of knock offs and changing to the octagon "safety" nuts to hold the wheels on. wouldn't want to shred someone's ankles... we live in a "Nanny State"

 

[Warren]

Ha ha, Sean let's blame Hollywood again and Sean Connery I mean Bond, James Bond and the Aston Martin shredding tires. We all know that happened in the real world or there was a chance of it even if it was infinitesimal...

 

[65beam]

This car is # 904 of the Alpine GT's. They were sent to the states with a dual brake master with all hydraulic units being Lockheed instead of Girling. They also came with a brake warning light that signaled a loss of pressure on either chamber of the brake master along with shoulder belts, different steering wheel with a large foam center and high back seats as standard equipment. U.S. regulations forced a lot of changes

 

[Austin Healer]

This car is # 904 of the Alpine GT's. They were sent to the states with a dual brake master with all hydraulic units being Lockheed instead of Girling. They also came with a brake warning light that signaled a loss of pressure on either chamber of the brake master along with shoulder belts, different steering wheel with a large foam center and high back seats as standard equipment. U.S. regulations forced a lot of changesView attachment 14913View attachment 14914

1968 and later...

Another car that had dual circuit brakes (and twin boosters) was the MGC. MGB's and TR250/TR6 had dual circuit brakes with what was called a PWDA switch which consisted of a sliding shuttle that would trigger a warning light if one circuit developed a fault (leak)

 

[Austin Healer]

Ha ha, Sean let's blame Hollywood again and Sean Connery I mean Bond, James Bond and the Aston Martin shredding tires. We all know that happened in the real world or there was a chance of it even if it was infinitesimal...

I blame Ralph Nader... Wood steering wheels were another thing deemed too hazardous to be fitted in cars.. Might get a splinter...

 

[HolyCat]

Ha ha, Sean let's blame Hollywood again and Sean Connery I mean Bond, James Bond and the Aston Martin shredding tires. We all know that happened in the real world or there was a chance of it even if it was infinitesimal...

I think it was Charles Heston who was on the receiving end in Ben Hur that led to the demise of the spinners. Remember the chariot race scene?

 

[65beam]

1968 and later...

Another car that had dual circuit brakes (and twin boosters) was the MGC. MGB's and TR250/TR6 had dual circuit brakes with what was called a PWDA switch which consisted of a sliding shuttle that would trigger a warning light if one circuit developed a fault (leak)

The same valve is on the firewall of this car. It takes a special master cap that allows you to use roughly two PSI of air pressure to center the valve correctly. I have the cap for these cars. Just one of the factory tools I have.