PPG Concept single stage paint

[Austin Healer]

True to form, PPG is discontinuing this product because it works... In the future the only single stage paints that will be available from PPG will be in their fleet paint (Delfleet) or in their Omni line. Omni isn't worth buying as it's mostly clear and takes a lot more material to cover... it also doesn't stand the test of time. I have no idea if they will be able to come up with formulae to mix accurate colors in the Delfleet line. I managed to obtain the pigments and catalyst for one more job. I have no idea how long it will be before it's no longer available.

 

[65beam]

The same situation arose with Deltron many years ago. As environmental laws change so do things like paint formulation and reducer. I have an unopened gal of mid night blue PPG Deltron. The reducer hasn't been available for a number of years. There are what could be called water based paints now in use. As environmental regulations change many of the products we were used to have been banned and there are more to come. A recent change here in Ohio was to brake cleaner. We had a meeting with our Penray rep last week because the state mandated the use of 10% VOC instead of the old 40% maximum. There are changes coming to the maximum percentage of methanol allowed in windshield washer fluid.

 

[Agent 861]

I'm glad I'm old - I can't put up with another 50 years of saving the planet

 

[65beam]

I'm glad I'm old - I can't put up with another 50 years of saving the planet

It never quits! There's no end to it.

 

[Austin Healer]

The same situation arose with Deltron many years ago. As environmental laws change so do things like paint formulation and reducer. I have an unopened gal of mid night blue PPG Deltron. The reducer hasn't been available for a number of years. There are what could be called water based paints now in use. As environmental regulations change many of the products we were used to have been banned and there are more to come. A recent change here in Ohio was to brake cleaner. We had a meeting with our Penray rep last week because the state mandated the use of 10% VOC instead of the old 40% maximum. There are changes coming to the maximum percentage of methanol allowed in windshield washer fluid.

The reducer for Deltron (DAU) is DT870 (mid temp) and still available as it's what is used for Concept and all of the urethane clears. The original catalyst for DAU was DU2. But DU5 or DX61 can be used. I can still get conventional basecoat, but it's extra work over single stage. If it comes down to switching to envirobase (water based paint), I'll just quit painting all together. The water based paints are actually MORE toxic than the solvent based paints and the really ridiculous part is that they still have to be topcoated with a solvent based clear...

 

[65beam]

The reducer for Deltron (DAU) is DT870 (mid temp) and still available as it's what is used for Concept and all of the urethane clears. The original catalyst for DAU was DU2. But DU5 or DX61 can be used. I can still get conventional basecoat, but it's extra work over single stage. If it comes down to switching to envirobase (water based paint), I'll just quit painting all together. The water based paints are actually MORE toxic than the solvent based paints and the really ridiculous part is that they still have to be topcoated with a solvent based clear...

The reducer for Deltron has not been available here for many years. Our blue car has Deltron but the reducer wasn't available when our green car was under going a body restoration at Tiger Auto back in 2012. That's why it has Concept on it. The last car was painted in 2018 and has Martin Senour from NAPA. It as well as the 69 GT have the same paint color which is Ford Wimbledon white. None of our cars have a clear coat.

 

[Austin Healer]

The reducer for Deltron has not been available here for many years. Our blue car has Deltron but the reducer wasn't available when our green car was under going a body restoration at Tiger Auto back in 2012. That's why it has Concept on it. The last car was painted in 2018 and has Martin Senour from NAPA. It as well as the 69 GT have the same paint color which is Ford Wimbledon white. None of our cars have a clear coat.

Concept (DCC) and Deltron (DAU) use the exact same reducer... they are both acrylic urethane type single stage paint. I have sprayed Deltron (DAU) and subsequently Concept (DCC) exclusively since the '80's. I don't know who told you the reducers were different, but they are wrong. The mid temp reducer is DT870, low temp is DT860 and hi temp is DT885. The only difference is the catalyst. DU2 ( or DAU2) was the catalyst normally used for DAU paints, DU5 was listed as an optional catalyst (It makes the paint harder). DU2 has been unavailable for a LONG time, BUT DU5 is readily available and was the normal catalyst called for when using Concept. DX61 is an optional catalyst for Concept, and the recommended catalyst for all of the Concept clears (I use 2020 or 2021). I only use clear when painting metallic or pearl finishes (basecoat) as a single stage in either cannot be polished without completely screwing up the end result.

The ratio for mixing DAU would be 4 parts paint, 2 parts DU5 catalyst, 1 part DT870 reducer.

I really liked Deltron as it was very forgiving and you could wait a long time before polishing, the biggest difference with Concept is that it is a much harder paint and you have to polish within 3 or 4 days to get the best results.

When PPG altered their DP epoxy primer to make it lead free it really degraded the spray out characteristics... before it laid out smooth and after the change it was horrible. i remember my paint rep at the time told me to add acetone... I just used 10% of the normal DT870 reducer which worked fine.

I do not sublet out my body and paint work, so I'm speaking from direct experience.

I walked into my PPG jobber on Monday and ordered everything I needed.. He had to bring in pigment and catalyst from multiple locations across the state, but was able to round up what I needed

 

[65beam]

Concept (DCC) and Deltron (DAU) use the exact same reducer... they are both acrylic urethane type single stage paint. I have sprayed Deltron (DAU) and subsequently Concept (DCC) exclusively since the '80's. I don't know who told you the reducers were different, but they are wrong. The mid temp reducer is DT870, low temp is DT860 and hi temp is DT885. The only difference is the catalyst. DU2 ( or DAU2) was the catalyst normally used for DAU paints, DU5 was listed as an optional catalyst (It makes the paint harder). DU2 has been unavailable for a LONG time, BUT DU5 is readily available and was the normal catalyst called for when using Concept. DX61 is an optional catalyst for Concept, and the recommended catalyst for all of the Concept clears (I use 2020 or 2021). I only use clear when painting metallic or pearl finishes (basecoat) as a single stage in either cannot be polished without completely screwing up the end result.

The ratio for mixing DAU would be 4 parts paint, 2 parts DU5 catalyst, 1 part DT870 reducer.

I really liked Deltron as it was very forgiving and you could wait a long time before polishing, the biggest difference with Concept is that it is a much harder paint and you have to polish within 3 or 4 days to get the best results.

When PPG altered their DP epoxy primer to make it lead free it really degraded the spray out characteristics... before it laid out smooth and after the change it was horrible. i remember my paint rep at the time told me to add acetone... I just used 10% of the normal DT870 reducer which worked fine.

I do not sublet out my body and paint work, so I'm speaking from direct experience.

I walked into my PPG jobber on Monday and ordered everything I needed.. He had to bring in pigment and catalyst from multiple locations across the state, but was able to round up what I needed

What may apply in one state may not apply in another state.

 

[Austin Healer]

What may apply in one state may not apply in another state.

Well, you couldn't spray Concept either, then... I think you are confusing reducer for catalyst. in any event. if you could/can spray Concept, then you could have sprayed Deltron as well. The reducers are THE SAME. And the catalysts are compatible...

 

[Austin Healer]

DT 860/870/885 PPG reducer is PPG's "global" acrylic enamel reducer. It has been for over 40 years. It is the go to reducer for all enamel products. Concept, Delfleet, DP epoxy and DBU basecoat and DCC clears.. It does NOT work with the envirobase line which is water base and requires a "special" water reducer. There used to be a catalyzed basecoat DBC which used DRR (reactive reducer) reducers... These have been discontinued.... with good reason. As was Delstar which was an acrylic enamel. This product couldn't be polished and was best termed a paint for production shops, like Omni. The only other reducer sold by PPG is DTL16 which is designed for lacquer paints and as a general "clean-up" thinner.

Current catalysts, or hardeners are DU5 and DX61. These require different mixing ratios. The DCC clears specify that they recommend DX61. Concept (colors) can use either, but the DX61 makes it very hard to polish if you delay longer than 3 days... Basically DU5 uses less solvents and has a lower risk of trapped solvents and problems with swelling and sand scratches down the line. The less solvents the better! DP doesn't use any initially and only 10% as a sealer, K36/K201 (hi build primer) has no added solvents and Concept with DU5 only has 25% reduction (4:2:1) If you elect to use DX61, it's half the catalyst and twice the solvent. (4:1:2)

 

[boss-tiger]

I found that most automotive paint shops do not want to work on older/classic cars, and ALL shops are very expensive these days. It took me a year to find then get my car painted (and a whole seperate topic is the 1st paint shop that lead me on for almost 2 years and I ended up dumping). Also found that any paint shop willing to do work on classic cars had a long wait, all over 6 months, most about a year out. In the past I have always used and heard great things about PPG paint but encountered a paint called Glasurit often visiting paint shops which I beleve is a BASF product from Germany, I just had my car painted with Glasurit brand paint and it looks great. Time will tell how it holds up. Any input re. this Glasurit product - which BTW was what many paint shops I interviewed were using.

 

[65beam]

DT 860/870/885 PPG reducer is PPG's "global" acrylic enamel reducer. It has been for over 40 years. It is the go to reducer for all enamel products. Concept, Delfleet, DP epoxy and DBU basecoat and DCC clears.. It does NOT work with the envirobase line which is water base and requires a "special" water reducer. There used to be a catalyzed basecoat DBC which used DRR (reactive reducer) reducers... These have been discontinued.... with good reason. As was Delstar which was an acrylic enamel. This product couldn't be polished and was best termed a paint for production shops, like Omni. The only other reducer sold by PPG is DTL16 which is designed for lacquer paints and as a general "clean-up" thinner.

Current catalysts, or hardeners are DU5 and DX61. These require different mixing ratios. The DCC clears specify that they recommend DX61. Concept (colors) can use either, but the DX61 makes it very hard to polish if you delay longer than 3 days... Basically DU5 uses less solvents and has a lower risk of trapped solvents and problems with swelling and sand scratches down the line. The less solvents the better! DP doesn't use any initially and only 10% as a sealer, K36/K201 (hi build primer) has no added solvents and Concept with DU5 only has 25% reduction (4:2:1) If you elect to use DX61, it's half the catalyst and twice the solvent. (4:1:2)

Your knowledge of the products you have available and use in your state is great. But, different states, different rules. What may be available in your state may not be available in another state. Different formulations of products for different state rules. A good example not directly related to paint is that here in my state we can't buy or sell brake cleaner with 30% VOC's. We're restricted to 10%. But we can drive a few miles and cross the bridge into Ky. and buy all the 30% VOC product we want for personal use. We just can't sell it in Ohio. Maybe paint products you are using are not available in other western states.

 

[Theorangetiger]

I found that most automotive paint shops do not want to work on older/classic cars, and ALL shops are very expensive these days. It took me a year to find then get my car painted (and a whole seperate topic is the 1st paint shop that lead me on for almost 2 years and I ended up dumping). Also found that any paint shop willing to do work on classic cars had a long wait, all over 6 months, most about a year out. In the past I have always used and heard great things about PPG paint but encountered a paint called Glasurit often visiting paint shops which I beleve is a BASF product from Germany, I just had my car painted with Glasurit brand paint and it looks great. Time will tell how it holds up. Any input re. this Glasurit product - which BTW was what many paint shops I interviewed were using.

The vast majority of body shops are now collision centers who just write estimates, order replacement parts, put them on, paint and move on to the next ones. I agree it's pretty hard to find a shop that wants to take on classic cars but they are out there. I had my Tiger done at such a shop. It was there for 14 months. Based on past experience, I didn't push too hard for him to get it done and am very happy with the end result for the price I paid.

 

[boss-tiger]

Agree, re most are collision repair centers and want piece work not classic cars. Plus, here in Denver most auto and body repair shops are being driven out with higher rent plus no one wants to work anymore, everyone has a help wanted sign out (side bar, ?where are these folks that do not want to work getting their $)