Stock vs. Personalized vs. Modified

65beam

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Yep, we made a few vertical brackets that mount under the boot handle and are angle out just enough to allow nylon screws. The trick was a quick double 90 deg. so the plate wouldn't rise above the letters.
Has anyone stopped to think that Rootes did not have rear provisions for mounting a license plate on an Alpine or Tiger? Rootes did provide a place on the front valance for a plate using various brackets over the years so how can anyone say one way of mounting the rear plate is right versus another being wrong. That makes you think that the way of mounting a plate was at the discretion of the dealer or owner. I still have the license bracket that was installed on the trunk of our series 4 Alpine by Byers in Columbus when the car was sold new. It was bolted to the trunk just above the trunk handle . After changing to the fastback body in 68 provisions for mounting the plate under the bumper were provided.
 

Warren

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As old threads read different states have different requirements for placement of rear plates.
Dealership compliance was what it was. Possibly the UK regions had a similar rule as to height as both above and below are often seen.
Randy was commenting on the narrow vision that was applied on the boot lid mounting by Mr. Miller
I think :)
 

65beam

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As old threads read different states have different requirements for placement of rear plates.
Dealership compliance was what it was. Possibly the UK regions had a similar rule as to height as both above and below are often seen.
Randy was commenting on the narrow vision that was applied on the boot lid mounting by Mr. Miller
I think :)
And with that goes the fact that you should not deduct points for improper plate placement if the car is from a state that doesn't require anything but being displayed on the rear of the vehicle. Maybe you didn't notice but there was one car at SUNI that has no provision on the body for mounting a rear plate.
 

HolyCat

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Many of the attempts to define the car classes (Stock, Personalized, and Modified) were based on the Concours. Instead, car classification should also be based on the Autocross.

Back in the early 70s, there was an organization which produced a set of standards for autocrossing in Southern California. The Southern California Council of Sports Car Clubs (SCCSCC) held an annual autocross at the old airfield at Lone Pine, CA. Every car was put into a group. As I recall, Tigers were put in the same group as the solid axle Corvettes, Mustangs, and similar cars. Even then there were two classes – Stock and Modified. Any changes to the car that increased its performance on the track would put it into the Modified class. SCCSCC did not care what color you painted your car, what kind of seats you had, what style of wheels you ran (as long as they were not wider than stock). These changes would not require your car to run in the Modified class.

This makes sense for the track. But what about the Concours? An owner might like an orange Tiger with 5-1/2" Panasport wheels and Recaro seats. These changes do not improve the car’s performance on the track, so it would not be fair to have such a car run an autocross in the Modified class, competing a Tiger with fuel injection, quick rack, 8” wide wheels, and ultra sticky, track-only tires. This is where the Personalized class comes in. Personalized class should be used for cars that have been changed from stock, but without any modifications that improves its track performance.

So here are my suggestions for car classifications:

STOCK – No performance enhancements (other than LAT options) have been made to the car which would improve its times in the Autocross. The car is basically the way it came from the factory. The only changes allowed without losing points in the Concours are the LAT options.

PERSONALIZED – No performance enhancements have been made to the car to run in the Autocross, except the LAT options or items similar to the LAT options (such as an Weiand intake instead of the LAT Edelbrock). Otherwise, the car can be changed in any way (that suits the owner). Such changes are too numerous or obvious to enter the car in the Concours as STOCK.

MODIFIED – Performance enhancements can be made to improve run times in the Autocross. Any changes may be made for the car in the Concours, although those changes should be tastefully done or risk losing points in the Concours.

This is pretty simple way to classify cars. Some might contend that some performance modifications should be allowed in the PERSONALIZED class, but that is like being a little pregnant. It would be very difficult to decide how many and what performance enhancements are allowed while the car can remain in the PERSONALIZED class.

Also, using this system would better balance the number of vehicles in each of the three classes, as some of the cars that have run in the PERSONALIZED class would now run in the much less crowded MODIFIED class.
 

IvaTiger

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Curious about how picky things about stock equipment in regards to radiator caps being used since early Tigers used a 9 pound and later Tigers used a 13 pound , would the 9 pound boil over and spoil the run whilst the 13 pound would finish the run And do you have to run 13 inch cross ply tires to maintain stock performance along with old school type oils and coolants. It is too bad that LAT options are not available off the shelf for newbie Tiger owners who may want a fair shot Just saying
 

Warren

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I totally agree some things need to be looked at. Many if asked would probably agree that a Hokanson or Dale's front end would push a car into modified, but would a MG rack or a internal change to a stock rack for quick steering?
I like the old points system or a handicapping system built in. Given the differences in cars it lays a lot of trust in disclosure of the internal mods as well.

You can find F-4b's on Craigslist but I think the suggestion was ones that use similar HP gain manifolds. As for bias belted tires and 9 lb caps there's a run on the tires you rolled in on, not with a 9 lb cap. So bring on that orange looking paper AC air filter :)
 
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VaCat33

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A few years back the clubs got together via video conference calls and we pretty much agreed on classifications for autocross and concours. We in TEAE codified almost all of that into our autocross rules which can be seen at the following link.

https://teae.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Autocross-RulesV2-19.pdf

I am sure the other clubs follow similar rules, we just wrote ours down. There will always be a few sticking points on which some might not agree.
 

65beam

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As an explainer Norm et al had looked to the " Dealers did it this way to my car back when new." As a result below bumper mountings were penalized then.
You need to consider that there was not and still is not a mandatory ,cut and dried nation wide statement that says " your license plate has to be installed in this location, at this height, in this manner, blah, blah blah." I have multiple original Sunbeam trunk lids with no holes drilled in them. Different strokes for different dealers. Trunks without holes have less rust if you lived in the rust belt. FYI, I know of one Ist place car that was at SUNI that has no plates.
 

Warren

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I'm just commenting on the way that things were judged . This isn't about what states require as to plate placement or if a front is required or not.
 

65beam

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I'm just commenting on the way that things were judged . This isn't about what states require as to plate placement or if a front is required or not.
I was making the point that just because a west coast dealer did things one way doesn't mean that a dealer east of the river had to do it the same way. Any way a dealer installed the plate when new would be correct so why would you say that only one manner would be correct because your car was done this way.
 

Warren

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Don't slay the messenger because of the message please, I was only restating the Normspeak. I've looked at the criteria that some have used over the years and scratched my head. I was not involved in the show(s) as I was just a spectator and worker at the events often. Good rules are like good fences and make for good neighbors and hopefully a good event.
 

65beam

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Keep in mind that someone at CAT came up with a plate / light mounting that went against the norm. It allows for mounting the plate under the bumper and you can flip the lights with no problems. I have bought several of them in the past and it's a great item.
 
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