Body sealers and undercoat

C

corvbeam

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I am doing a restoration on my MKIA. I have completed metal repairs and am at the point of painting and undercoating the bottom.

I need to repair or replace the sealing compound (tar based?) where Jensen sealed the tiger tunnel to the floor. What are people using to do that and where can it be purchased?

Also, in need to replace the sealing material between the inner fender well and inside of the front fender. On the rear portion. Some type weather seal. Mine was dry, brittle and loose. Not sure what it was or is. What are people doing there?

Input on what is the best undercoat that would look original would also be helpful.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Joe
 
Don't Skimp

First hard brush in the best self-etching primer you can find. Don't spray it, but brush it in liberally. We use the 3M products. A 2-part epoxy black sealer works great and will out last all of us. The combo gun for it ain't cheap but very effective. Sometimes you will need to build a bead and let it set for a while in order to "bridge" a wide gap. For reference you might look up the "worthy restoration" thread in these forums. The 3M undercoating (use the paintable product) is also my first choice. Stay away from the bargain water based junk. You can PM me for product part numbers for your NAPA or other auto parts sources.
 
3M Seam Sealer after the initial primer coat, before undercoat as oneoffive suggested. If you are using red oxide as the first, follow with seam sealer, then epoxy primer.
I think the newer self etching base primers are better than the base red oxide. But some like to follow the factory base.
 
sealers

I think every body man has his own idea of how to restore a car. the guy that has done our bodies over the years has always had the bodies dipped prior to any work on the body. he has then done any panel replacement after opening up concealed areas to clean and apply epoxy to help prevent rust. he also removes the top of the rear inner fender panel to treat that area and he later replaces that with a new panel that he makes. he usually does a lot more welding to the frame rails and X frame to strengthen the entire car. it then gets epoxy primer, more body work, more primer, seam sealer, etc. eventually the finish primer/ sealer is applied and gets painted. one thing I have not seen him do much of over the last 35 years is the application of undercoating to cover the bottom of the car. the entire car including the underneath side have been painted. he does use a clear 3M undercoating that is sprayed into the X frame areas and any chassis components that were not opened up. if you look at my photobucket and go to page 18 to start and continue to the front you can see the several years of his last restoration for us. you'll probably notice some brown spots on the bottom of the car. this was the 3M product that ran out. i.'m still finding spots that I missed when I got the car back a few years ago. the wife's series 5 alpine was done this way 20 years ago and still looks great today. http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/65beam/
 
I do not like to use seam sealer for the applications/purposes that you mention. Butyl Rubber Sealant is what I use. It is especially useful for filling large areas, like the space between the inner and outer fenders behind the front wheels. It comes in tubes, like caulk, and you use them in a standard caulk gun. I like it because it hardens but remains flexible, it has outstanding adhesion, it is superior at sealing, and it is cheap. It is commonly sold at hardware stores as gutter/downspout/flashing sealant. Also, it does not dry out, shrink, and crack like other sealers will do when you have to use it in a thick application or when filling a large/wide space (3M Seam Sealer does this). Unlike silicone-type sealants, it is paintable after it drys, but you must use a flex additive in the paint or the paint will crack. Years ago, an old timer who had restored MANY cars turned-me on to this.
 
Undercoats, paint layers, wheel well filler

I think this picture helps explain the mystery and also confirm some previous posts regarding brushing of coating, etc.

The lower left of the picture shows the passenger side inner wheel well and outer fender "gap."

You can also see the layers of paint, as the wheel well away from the seams was not media blasted (at my request). As we're repainting back to original, I prefer to keep the "patina" or antiqued appearance in areas that I can. But...

You can clearly see these layers:
1) red oxide
2) med blue body color
3) dusty grey(ed), cracking coating
4) then the issue... I personally see med blue, BUT it is very difficult to discern whether this blue is showing through the coating, or had been directly painted over the coating, OR some overspray.

I could use feedback here. First, after blasting the exposed areas had the PPG 2-part sealer epoxy sprayed. So, hopefully the inner sill / fender gap has been protected fairly well. But, was there not something else, like a tar paper or other media originally covering that gap? Then, Wags last post indicates the butyl rubber as a good solution to fill. I'm not so worried about any over painting cracking, as clearly the original method is doing the same.

Second, the original belly undersealer seems pretty good shape, but clearly old and greyed. My painter (great guy) is suggesting to spray semi-gloss black over the existing, after he re applies undercoat to those perimeter seams that were blasted. (note: I referred Eastwoods 16008ZP rubberized undercoating as a previous post suggested)

Knowing my preference to keep "as-is" as much as possible and yet knowing the areas blasted will need NEW undercoating and paint, have you any suggestions?

Thanks,
 
Workmanship Is

DD (CA) said:
I think this picture helps explain the mystery and also confirm some previous posts regarding brushing of coating, etc.
You can clearly see these layers:
I could use feedback here. First, after blasting the exposed areas had the PPG 2-part sealer epoxy sprayed. So, hopefully the inner sill / fender gap has been protected fairly well. But, was there not something else, like a tar paper or other media originally covering that gap? Then, Wags last post indicates the butyl rubber as a good solution to fill. I'm not so worried about any over painting cracking, as clearly the original method is doing the same.

Second, the original belly undersealer seems pretty good shape, but clearly old and greyed. My painter (great guy) is suggesting to spray semi-gloss black over the existing, after he re applies undercoat to those perimeter seams that were blasted. (note: I referred Eastwoods 16008ZP rubberized undercoating as a previous post suggested)

Knowing my preference to keep "as-is" as much as possible and yet knowing the areas blasted will need NEW undercoating and paint, have you any suggestions?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Once you have established your requirements and needs, trust your paint guy . . . . .
 
The circle of restohell?

Oh, I trust the paint guy 100%...but he's counting on me to explain what my requirement and needs are...and I don't trust THIS guy (in mirror)...thats why I'm counting on YOU guys...

:p

Decisions:
- Seam seal in trunk per my old photos, with body color over
- Seam seal in bay (firewall / fender / partial horizontal top of firewall), with body color over
- Undercoat at belly perimeter where previous was removed.
- Undercoat in wheel wells where previous was removed, light body color overspray over...leave remainder, patching where missing.
- air vent scuttle seal... probably goop some there too.

Think he is painting trunk and bay innards in a day. Exterior this week.

Much exciting... (Borat)
 
deep subject

You are going to driver quality right? If that's the case just do not cover any loose stuff and you have done the other documentation of the work better than most all that have done the same. I spent some time with a fellow Tiger this week he had spent 3 hours on a false floor repair, I had just asked him to weld it. As a matter of fact I wanted to use his little wire feed welder as I want to try before I go buy my own. Now the part belongs on your car!

I hate to say it but the car was undercoated with a broom as described in other posts. IDK if that was a corn husk style wisk broom slathered with goo by a West Bromwich guy who wasn't spending the same time as wasn't getting paid like the Jag or Bently craftsmen.

Personally I did see a car with painted body color wheel wells, not for me. The only reason I see to do that would be as in resale mode one always wonders what lies beneath. I also cannot see cleaning and drying after every puddle crossed. Having restored my driver VW convertible 3 times, now stuck on the 4rd in 20 year process it enjoyed a better quality resto each time.

Maybe your question is or should be how much and where was factor broom applied and Dad rattle canned or whomever Dad paid to paint her yellow.

From all you post it sounds like you are leaning towards a personalized car that is period correct that leaves a good canvas for your decisions a nice Hell to be in.
 
Picking nits...

Yes, driver for sure... Not concours... BUT... period correct and sometimes it takes just as much time / effort / $ to make something period correct as period incorrect. I'm reasonable (of course my opinion)... I might not weld a piece in that is intended for removal at times, but I'm open to short cuts. But, if it'll take the same energy to 'put it back how it was' thats my goal; for APPEARANCE anyway.

EX: Knowing the original factory paint layers, I did NOT have the epoxy sealer sourced and sprayed in red oxide color... it's now grey and its all going to be covered. And yet, I've seen some rotisserie projects remove all the undercoating by hand, to go back and spray red, then body paint over, then NOT undercoat... which seems... odd... It looks nice, but goes to that concours v. driver thing.

And, I was jesting at 'restohell'... By all means this is a good place to be, building back. Sorry to come across as being overpained by these decisions.

That comes soon with the DRIVELINE hem and hawing... hah

Speaking of which, I'll PM you for STOA 1999 re: Pertronix. article.
 
Never Forget The Socialist Labor Market of the 60's

DD (CA) said:
Yes, driver for sure... Not concours... BUT... period correct and sometimes it takes just as much time / effort / $ to make something period correct as period incorrect. I'm reasonable (of course my opinion)... I might not weld a piece in that is intended for removal at times, but I'm open to short cuts. But, if it'll take the same energy to 'put it back how it was' thats my goal; for APPEARANCE anyway.
Click to expand...

These critters were spanked together by the most available (cheapest) labor resource of the time; drunken Irishmen. To be a factory correct rehab, stock the water cooler with plenty of hi-test . . . . . . . .
 
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