Pertronix stuff be Carefull !!

M

Moondoggie

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I just completed 10 hours of engine dynoing on my 302 and some interesting
problems have come up with Pertronix distributors !!! One of our Bay Area club members lost his cam to D1308 because the gear was not located in the correct possition and was too low and wiped out the cam gear. My D1308
would not hold timing and was erratic sometimes returning to idle setting and sometimes not but the BIG problem was it lost magnetic signal around 4500 rpm and the motor fell flat on it's face.

Moondoggie
 
That's why I think it's better just to change to points for the pertronix unit in the stock distributor.
 
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Duke....

We didn't have another dito to try the first day so we tried to get the sucker
to work. It would run okay to about 4500 rpm then the motor would start missing then fall falt on it's face at 5200. Saturday we replaced it with a Hypo
distributor out of Bill Martin's tiger and that solved that problem. We made a total of 13 pulls both days and yesterday we tried a bunch of parts on the motor. End result was 365 hp and 355 ft/lbs the torque curve is almost flat from 2000 - 6500 rpm...

Moondoggie
 
Moondoggie said:
End result was 365 hp and 355 ft/lbs the torque curve is almost flat from 2000 - 6500 rpm.
Click to expand...

OK, glad you got it worked out. Those are very respectable numbers for a 302, congratulations. You should see 310 to the wheels.

I did have a couple of issues with my distro while on the engine dyno.
1 - the stock hold-down clamp was too small and the distro kept turning and retarding the advance. Tightening the hell out of it was the quick fix. I ended up installing this MSD clamp -
msd-8010.jpg


2 - something in the rotor cap kept it from advancing fully, it would catch on the weights. I place a washer between the cap and mating surface for each screw which solved the problem.

My engine dyno time took two days too and $650! That hurt.
 
Moondoggie said:
End result was 365 hp and 355 ft/lbs the torque curve is almost flat from 2000 - 6500 rpm...

Moondoggie
Click to expand...

Is the motor in the car or on a stand? If you are on a stand I am a little surpirsed that you are not seeing higher numbers given the heads etc you are running.
 
Michael,

Yes we were running on superflow engine dyno. We are running a Comp Cam
35-425-8 with 513/526 lift and 230/236 duration which is a pretty good cam. I am using the F4B manifold so that might be giving up some hp but it was ported to match the heads. I have a Jet 4150 650 stage 4 carb that has all of the trick stuff done to it and that gave us the best numbers over a 750 similiar
carb. You know of course the Ford racing motors don't put out anywhere near 340 hp so you can't really use that as a point of reference. Another Bay area club member dynoed the same motor on this dyno a few months back and got the same result. But the torque curve is almost flat from 2000-6500 rpm so it should be a sweet motor on the street.

Moondoggie
 
I am aware of the various differences in claimed Hp and actual.. I have run the car on the dyno a few times ( I am also well aware of the difference in the various dyno types.. and then those dyno's that allow figures to ensure happy customers!)



also a video of the run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJ7BWqSes0

This is a dyno sheet for my car from back in 2008. I have run it another time since (will try and find the sheet) but at the time this was done the ditributor curve was not quite right and i was running older plus. This is with a weiand intake, edelbrock 600 and mallory unilite. The dyno dynamics genreally read lower due to the dual rollers.. but iwas there to sort the mixtures/timing anyway...

Since then with a bit of mucking around on jets and plugs I managed to get it on the same dyno up to 259 @ the wheels. I will at some point switch to a Crane controler which should give a bit more oomph and even more low down torque. A better intake (edelbrock performer RPM would be on the top of the list) would see some betetr gains to.. but to be honest the car runs sweet and moves fast enough for the moment :cool:
 
Michael,

I was just looking at the unilite as it is on my list of possible replacements
for the Pertronix falme thrower. In the instructions they recommend a balast resister and a power filter be used, how did you handle this ??? They both look
rather hard to hide. Crane makes excellent stuff and I would go with their street distributor but it requires a box and I'm trying to stay as close to stock looking as possible. They have a much better points replacement module that has a rev limiter built into it than Pertronix. I'm thinking of doing a Hypo 289 dist with a Crane module....

Moondoggie
 
Moondoggie said:
Michael,

I was just looking at the unilite as it is on my list of possible replacements
for the Pertronix falme thrower. In the instructions they recommend a balast resister and a power filter be used, how did you handle this ??? They both look
rather hard to hide. Crane makes excellent stuff and I would go with their street distributor but it requires a box and I'm trying to stay as close to stock looking as possible. They have a much better points replacement module that has a rev limiter built into it than Pertronix. I'm thinking of doing a Hypo 289 dist with a Crane module....

Moondoggie
Click to expand...

I still have a ballast resistor on the car, though am going to ditch it at some point. I dont recall a power filter on it.

As for the crane control boxes, you can mount them in the car up on the firewall or behind the passengers toe board, it keeps them out of sight and out of the engine bay heat.I have a friend here who did that as a replacement for his MSD contorller that caused nothing but trouble
 
Moondoggie is correct about the need to be carefull with Pertronix.

I'd like to mention the actual electronics. There are 3 different Pertronix ignitions. Each requires a different resistance in the coil. So they sell 3 different coils. If you use another coil you'd better get out the meter and measure the resistance.

Low resistance coils deliver hotter sparks and use more juice. The Pertronix I is designed for a 3 ohm coil. If you use a lower resistance coil you may have to add a ballast resistor to achieve the proper resistance. If you are using the correct coil you don't need one. With too low coil resistance, the Pertronix unit can deliver more spark than it's designed for. It can get too hot and fail.

We've settled on the Pertronix III ignition and coil for the racing. We've (accidently) tested it to 8,000.

For a street car, I believe the Pertronix I still gives something like 5 times the spark that you can get out of points and condenser.

Personally, for street cars I prefer using a Ford duraspark distributor as the trigger and hook it up to a GM HEI module. It's been totally bulletproof.

bt
 
KISS & 2 Cents

Being a Nor'east barnyard warrior, I prefer the really simple easy-to-fix stuff. I keep a points kit and a few tools w/us for the longer trips. All the rest of the toys we do for our muscle car consumers keeps them coming back for more shop hours. Thank You
 
EDIS

Im courious why, doesnt anybody switch over to a Ford EDIS, with something like a Megajolt or Megasquirt controller? I think thats what a lot of mustang people are doing. Seems fairly simple, and totally programble.
 
Okay, But

67 Tiger said:
Im courious why, doesnt anybody switch over to a Ford EDIS, with something like a Megajolt or Megasquirt controller? I think thats what a lot of mustang people are doing. Seems fairly simple, and totally programble.
Click to expand...

That little sensor module hates heat, which Tigers have an abundance of . . . .
 
Petronix - best Tool for keeping miles off my car!

Bought my '66 in October. Not quite complete resto mod w/289. Previous owner went w/289 hipo distributor with Petronix Ignitor module w/flamethrower Coil (I discovered). Haven't put many miles on it as I was redoing a lot of previous owner's poor assy work as well as sorting/identifying changes made by original owner(s).

Lost-coil after driving 15-20 miles breaking in new motor. Didn't think much of it--though wondered why I would lose a new coil. With 2nd ignition failure discovered the bad Ignitor module. Replaced module and car fires right up.

Now it fires right up and does not miss. However, once engine reaches full operation temp, ignition fails. Once it cools off 1 1/2 hrs later, it fires right up and runs perfectly. I have checked voltages to coil and all is good. I suspect that there is simply too much heat under the bonnet for this type module--of course no telling as I still am discovering the limits of the previous owners electrical and mechanical abilities. The car does have both kill switch as well as an electrical toggle kill switch (no idea why). Also wonder about the tiny little ground cable in the distributor.

I'm ready to chuck the module and go back to points. There is currently no balast resistor in the setup. I'm open to suggestions. I know going to a MSD or Mallory distributor would take care of it for about $300-$400. Of course I've probably spent that in trips to parts store and tow fees.
 
Problem WAS a common one, but denied by dealers

Chris Major said:
Bought my '66 in October. Not quite complete resto mod w/289. Previous owner went w/289 hipo distributor with Petronix Ignitor module w/flamethrower Coil (I discovered). Haven't put many miles on it as I was redoing a lot of previous owner's poor assy work as well as sorting/identifying changes made by original owner(s).

Lost-coil after driving 15-20 miles breaking in new motor. Didn't think much of it--though wondered why I would lose a new coil. With 2nd ignition failure discovered the bad Ignitor module. Replaced module and car fires right up.

Now it fires right up and does not miss. However, once engine reaches full operation temp, ignition fails. Once it cools off 1 1/2 hrs later, it fires right up and runs perfectly. I have checked voltages to coil and all is good. I suspect that there is simply too much heat under the bonnet for this type module--of course no telling as I still am discovering the limits of the previous owners electrical and mechanical abilities. The car does have both kill switch as well as an electrical toggle kill switch (no idea why). Also wonder about the tiny little ground cable in the distributor.

I'm ready to chuck the module and go back to points. There is currently no balast resistor in the setup. I'm open to suggestions. I know going to a MSD or Mallory distributor would take care of it for about $300-$400. Of course I've probably spent that in trips to parts store and tow fees.
Click to expand...

Late 80's and early 90's Ford (&others) had this module issue. A quick barnyard test is to keep your soft drink cup full of ice cubes, Sooooo, when it quits, hold the cubes against the module location. Etc. Etc.
 
I have the Ford mechanical dual point distributor still using the stock points, condensor, rotor, cap. I added a Pertronix flame thrower coil several years ago for a little extra kick and have had no ignition problems...all of this ancient stuff goes thousands of miles before I have to replace any of it- it's really reliable! So, if you do go back to the dual point, you can add the hotter coil without issue.
 
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