Strange colour codes

bernd_st

bernd_st

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Here is one for the specialists. Just bought a colour scheme chart for a 64 Tiger and found some "strange" colours -at least for me - listed:

- Mediterranean Blue with black upholstery (metallic)
- Jet Black with red or tan upholstery
- British racing green with black upholstery

Never heard or seen these colours or combinations. Can anybody confirm those were originally available for the MkI Tiger ?

P.S. The colour chart has the ref. # 1172/H and lists Alpine, Rapier & Tiger range
 
My Mk1A is Mediterranean blue with a black interior. I don't know what the metallic note means because the paint is not metallic. Cheers.
 
Having nothing better to do this cold-first-winter-storm-of-the-year evening, I thought I would have a go at researching the question on the internet. I thought maybe the colour references were of Alpine marketing material origin. I found a listing of Alpine colour codes said to be from the 1994 Sunbeam Alpine Owners' Club 1994 members handbook. Embassy Black (colour code 1) was noted as being called Jet Black on Brochures. Forest Green was indicated as Rootes name for British Racing Green. Mediterranean Blue is an official colour name (colour code 100) as has already been mentioned. I also have a Mark 1A in that colour. FYI, I found the black and green comments in the colour code list towards the end of the information at www.bss.ab.ca/sunbeam/section/alplst/specs.htm. Cheers, Gene

PS: This is what Mediterranean Blue looks like (original paint), after 43 years...
 

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Thanks folks, can follow the explanation of "Marketing names" for jet black & british racing green while having the feeling that those names could have also been market specific.
My colour scheme chart actually came from Australia so there may have been some differences. For mediterranean blue however the chart shows a greenish metallic blue not anywhere close to the car shown on the picture. The car on the picture looks like the good old Rootes "wedgewood blue" to me but perhaps there was another name variance. Anyhow the mystery for mediterranean continues. Think I´ll post a picture of that actual colour slip for further discussion later...
 
aah, by the way have never seen an original tan Tiger interior. Does anybody have it ?
 
First, my apologies to all for the typo in the link I listed in my earlier reply. The correct link is www.bss.ab.ca/sunbeam/section/alplist/specs.htm if you are interested in all the detail. It has some interesting commentary on all of the alpine colors as to on which series they were available that might be of special interest to all Alpine owners. It also makes mention that the Mediterranean Blue lacks the purplish tinge of the Wedgwood Blue (colour code 53). While green and purple are pretty far apart, perhaps the pigments in the brochure have also somehow changed over the years? Even if so, that would hardly account for the metallic aspect to the colour shown, so I guess the mystery does continue. Cheers, Gene

PS: I just noticed myself that the referenced web page mentions that the colour codes discussed are for cars assembled in the UK and that other codes exist for cars assembled abroad from C.K.D. kits. Could that perhaps have been the case for Tigers sold in Australia and they came up with their own version of Mediterranean Blue?
 
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Here is an actual scan of the actual colour chart. Perhaps I was mislead to judge mediterranean blue as metallic:
 

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them thar paint chips

Just to stoke the winter fires of doubt & cornfusion; years of restoration have shown me that all the colour codes & sample chips are at the mercy of the "experts" who stir the porridge. Actually matching an existing job may happen in heaven on the first try, but not often. I have tucked under my work bench several shades of Forest Green large samples all done with the same product and formular by several pro's and none of them are really correct. And of course the classic question, "How orange is Carnival Red supposed to be?". Keep stirring, randy
 
Mediterranean Blue Ditzler Code

OK, I hate to ask because I am not sure the precise answer actually exists. Is there a modern paint code for Rootes 100 (Mediterranean Blue)? If one wanted a 100 point paint job, meaning absolute correctness, matching exactly the original color, what paint brand and code would s/he choose? I saw a light blue 1969 XKE that looks very close, but may have lacked the shade of "aqua" that I think the original Mediterranean Blue had. I'm about 40 years late in seeing my car new, so I have little to go by other than faded original paint. Can anyone help? Thanks.
 
cadreamn67 said:
Cheers, Gene

PS: I just noticed myself that the referenced web page mentions that the colour codes discussed are for cars assembled in the UK and that other codes exist for cars assembled abroad from C.K.D. kits. Could that perhaps have been the case for Tigers sold in Australia and they came up with their own version of Mediterranean Blue?
Click to expand...

We had very few tigers come in to AU new.. but the ones that did were all Home market cars or home market export cars.. IIRC the only CKD Tigers were the South African cars? The SA cars have several detail differences to the rest of the production run.
 
Hi, The short answer as I understand it is no. As Randy says in his earlier post, even having the formula does not ensure the results are correct.

Earlier in this thread is a picture of my Mediterranean blue car, original paint as faded after 43 years at the time. I am getting a little closer to doing a full repaint. I just recently got a sample of what is represented to be a paint "chip" sample from Jan Servaites. He is widely referenced as a source for real paint samples of the original Rootes colors. He puts down a layer of the paint on a CD disk. I am not aware of what is his reference source.

I personally like the color of his sample. Compared to my existing faded original paint, it is several shades darker, as might be expected. However it is still a light blue. It also is a little grayer, richer looking for lack of a better term. I have read that the gray, somewhat muted tones were characteristic of the colors used by Rootes back in the day. Compared to other shades of lighter blue, it does have a green undertone as well. In my opinion, again I like what Jan has provided.

The next step is to take it to a paint shop, have them "read" the sample with their spectrograph and come up with their own formula. Obviously you want to test the result against the sample. As Randy says, the cook still has to get the recipe right. Jan says he paints his cars using BASF Glasurit single stage 22. I think matching to a color is better than relying on a formula. Even today, cars come off the line with variations of color over a production run.

About three years ago, a kid at my local auto paint store found a formula for a "Rootes Med. Blue" in an old book. No idea if that is medium blue or mediterranean blue. The color is very close, but according to my body shop guy does not have enough green in it. To my aging eyes, it looks a little too pure blue, almost like a cake icing color. Again maybe it is an issue of execution. The mixture was done in PPG Deltron 2000. The book code is DBC 13097. I have the pigment formula for a quart if you are interested.

Cheers, Gene
 
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Thanks, Gene. It's interesting, all the talk of a greenish tint. I have a paint shop nearby that supposedly found a crossover from the Rootes paint to Chrysler paint, but I thought it looks too green. Maybe it's right. I have to dig it out of the garage. I wonder if it's the same code you have. I'll let you know ASAP. Cheers.
 
About 20 years ago I had some touchup aerosol paint cans made up and they were labeled as Simca paints by the shop. Apparently Chrysler also owned Simca in France at the same time they owned Rootes, so it is very possible they consolidated paint sourcing and colors for the European operations. In fact now that I think about it further, maybe my more recent formula acquisition is also through a Chrysler/Simca labeling connection.

I do not want to overemphasize the green undertone. I myself do not see it on a standalone basis, it just becomes somewhat evident in a comparison to other blues. Probably your eyes are better than mine.

Gene

PS: Come to think of it, it does not seem illogical for Mediterranean Blue to have a little seawater green tint to it...
 
cadreamn67 said:
I just recently got a sample of what is represented to be a paint "chip" sample from Jan Servaites. He is widely referenced as a source for real paint samples of the original Rootes colors. He puts down a layer of the paint on a CD disk. I am not aware of what is his reference source.Cheers, Gene
Click to expand...


Gene,

Jan collected the samples IIRC form a series of unrestored cars from places like under the heater/latch tray, under dash and other out of sun/weather areas where any degredation of the colour would be limited if at all... he has some amazing range of colours.. i believ Ian Specncer may have helped with soe colours.. and if you know Ian he is certainly a very knowledgeable and rigourous reseracher/restorer.
 
I know when we had our paint shop there were several variations of British Racing Green--and they were all a little diferent. When we painted a friends Alpine we sprayed all the different codes for him to take home and decide which one was right.
 
Michael, many thanks for the additional info. It is great for the rest of us to have guys like Jan and Ian involved as they are in our Sunbeam corner of the classic car world.

BTW, I think his putting the colors on a CD is pretty clever. The large surface area is great. Plus the hole in the middle makes for a great way to compare the color to another by viewing it through that hole with the CD on top of it. I understand that a view-through hole in samples is an industry technique, but the size of everything using a CD is really helpful.

Cheers, Gene
 
Someone was asking if anyone has an original black with tan interior. There is one Tiger in the Detroit area that has that scheme as original.
 
Black Tiger with Pigskin interior.

When I bought my Tiger in 1965, I first drove a black Tiger with a pigskin interior. That was in Sacramento in December of 1965. I ended up buying my white Tiger from the dealer in Vallejo, but have always remembered that black Tiger with it's tan interior as the prettiest Tiger I've seen.
As I remember it, forty six years later it was referred to as the "pigskin" interior as it was near the color of a football and had a nubble texture similar to a football. I'd like to see one now just to see if it is as pretty as I remember it.
Sorry about this posting being 1-1/2 years late, but I just joined the forum and was reviewing old posts.
 
No problems on the posting---I did the same thing when I joined...haha. Where in Sacramento was the dealer?
 
If I understand what I've read, the Polar White (108) paint that can be bought today, probably won't match what my car was painted with from the factory. Is that right?
 
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