Ebay Sunbeam 260

To all you far more versed than I, what stands out about this car? Good, bad, otherwise - -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330600597801&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Thanks in advance. Spoke to the seller for over an hour, have a local contact looking at the car now, just would appreciate any insight from the inner circle.

The car is having another run on ebay... here are comments from the previous thread about it:

http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=744

While awaiting contributions from the inner circle, I will offer an observation or two from perhaps its outer fringes. It is hard to be helpful from afar with only pictures, not of our selection, being critiqued. So most comments relate to the obvious.

Some comments have already been made in prior postings about the rear parcel shelf so I incorporate those by reference.

No mention of whether or not the car has been TAC'd.

I would want to know a lot about who did the restoration work, see before and after pics, etc. Hopefully the restorer has good reputation and references. Although the rear parcel shelf is not a testimonal.

It looks like there may have been extensive work on the trunk spare wheel well. A lot of spot welds showing. But maybe not. I was looking at that area on my car earlier today and everything on those seams is covered with some sort of sealer, and painted over. So maybe my car looks the same underneath.

The air filter looks like simply an element sandwiched between two pieces of flat steel. That hopefully is a temporary situation and they have the correct aircleaner housing.

Dual master cylinder setup and no booster. Just an observation.

Are you sure you want an automatic trans? To me that would deserve a discount off the otherwise price.

Maybe it is my eyes, but the brake caliper looks a little unusual. If not stock girling, hopefully it is a well known conversion.

Stock wheels are a nice to have, but trim rings are not in the pictures. New wheels and tires are likely expenses in the near future.

No trunk false floor in pictures. Maybe it is in the unrestored side of things. Would be important to get a full inventory of that stuff to know what is and is not missing.

It looks like the holes for the side trim were filled in when the car was repainted, and Tiger script added. If having the car original is important to you, that will have to be fixed.

Hopefully your local contact can fill in a lot of the blanks filled in.

Cheers, Gene

Great input, and very appreciated. The fuel pump cut out was deleted in favor of a 'future' roll bar that thankfully did NOT get added. Resto work done on rotisserie (confirmed by local contact, who saw black overspray matching car on unit) . Lots of 'stealth' upgrades - suspension, brakes, steering, plus a good guy to boot.

Interior in great need at this point, but the seats have been located.

Automatic is a C4 mated to 'original' shifter which my contact could not believe was not a 4-speed, but the seller has a manual tranny to go with the car.

Contact said the paint was remarkable. Body work well done, motor compartment supremely nice though dusty. Underneath solid as a rock.

I bought the car.

Happy. A good project but 'hopefully' not out of my realm. We'll see!

Congratulations on finding your car!

I was struck by your comments about the stealth upgrades, especially regarding steering. I took a closer look at one of the pictures and see what looks like a factory Rack and Pinion unit. What was done to improve the steering?

Also I am embarrassed to say that in that second look I noticed the anti-sway bar is missing. Presumably you are going to upgrade to at least a 7/8 incher?

Tell us what is next in getting the car home and finished!

Again congratulations and best wishes for many miles of fun.

Cheers, Gene

PS: I suggest getting the car into Norm Miller's registry if it is not already there, and at least under your name now.

Congrats---keep us updated with pics......

AHudson777 said:

I bought the car.
Happy. A good project but 'hopefully' not out of my realm. We'll see!

Click to expand...

When you take delivery can you post some pics of the wheel arches, the rear lips look to have some flaring.. the front might too, but the front shots made it hard to tell.

cadreamn67 said:

Congratulations on finding your car!

I was struck by your comments about the stealth upgrades, especially regarding steering. I took a closer look at one of the pictures and see what looks like a factory Rack and Pinion unit. What was done to improve the steering?

Also I am embarrassed to say that in that second look I noticed the anti-sway bar is missing. Presumably you are going to upgrade to at least a 7/8 incher?

Tell us what is next in getting the car home and finished!

Again congratulations and best wishes for many miles of fun.

Cheers, Gene

PS: I suggest getting the car into Norm Miller's registry if it is not already there, and at least under your name now.

Click to expand...

Thanks! All good comments. He did the upgraded spindles (?) and rebuilt the rack. Has the stock sway bar, not installed. (Along with SHELVES of bits from top frame to extra grill, trim, spares).

michael-king said:

When you take delivery can you post some pics of the wheel arches, the rear lips look to have some flaring.. the front might too, but the front shots made it hard to tell.

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Will do. You guys will get sick of hearing from me!

Considering having the interior done by specialist. Anyone in central Florida area perhaps?

Thanks. Looking forward.

spec plate

I would like to see the area where the spec plate goes. My car is only 55 units from yours, B382000737, and is a German import also. Curious as to whether you have the German ID plate like mine.

UPDATE

Well, I'm a bit heartsick. After agreeing on a value based on authentication/approval by the Tiger folks, looks like this car got a rather significant 'thumbs down'.

My mistake was getting too eager, too early. I feel badly for the seller, who I still believe was acting in good faith, mostly unaware of the issues. Anyway, the search continues, and I am again indebted to sound guidance on this forum.

AHudson777 said:

Well, I'm a bit heartsick. After agreeing on a value based on authentication/approval by the Tiger folks, looks like this car got a rather significant 'thumbs down'.

My mistake was getting too eager, too early. I feel badly for the seller, who I still believe was acting in good faith, mostly unaware of the issues. Anyway, the search continues, and I am again indebted to sound guidance on this forum.

Click to expand...

Better to be dissapointed than gutted for buying the wrong car

What didn't the tiger folk not like about it?

tiger260 said:

What didn't the tiger folk not like about it?

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Well, among things already pointed out on this thread, seems to be mostly body issues -

1. Wheelwells were indeed flared. Discussions with seller indicated only inner lip flattened. (My understanding anyway.) Eye witness reports say stretched metal and/or filler, front and rear.
2. Massive trunk floor replacement, not so bad in and of itself yet awkward patch work indicates possible previous rust damage.
3. Rear parcel shelf area. Flat, inappropriate, unoriginal looking in most respects. Fuel pump access covered.
4. Transmission hump severely altered, possibly for C4 addition.

Several other lesser things pointed out.

AHudson777 said:

I feel badly for the seller, who I still believe was acting in good faith, mostly unaware of the issues. Anyway, the search continues, and I am again indebted to sound guidance on this forum.

Click to expand...

Is the seller the one that did the repairs? was rebuilding the car? Find it hard to believe they are unaware of all the rudeamentary panel repairs.

From the orignal thrrad i listed the wheel arches and rear parcel shlf.. as for the otehr mods.. not surprising given the obvious stuff... take your time to find the right vehicle.... inspect or get inspections before you pull the trigger.

AHudson777 said:

Well, I'm a bit heartsick. After agreeing on a value based on authentication/approval by the Tiger folks, looks like this car got a rather significant 'thumbs down'.

Click to expand...

By 'thumbs down' do you mean it isn't a Tiger or ?

Sorry to hear of your disappointment.

I am curious like several others as to whether or not it is a Tiger or a clone. At the end of the day, if it would pass a TAC inspection, I would then say the question really comes down to the quality of repairs being acceptable to you. It appears that on that basis alone they are not, and it is your money.

However, if it is a tiger, at some price, as is, it becomes an acceptable car, IMHO. The rear shelf is repair is hidden. Were it me, I would be moving the fuel pump to the Alpine spare wheel cavity a la the Mark II anyway, so the lack of an access door becomes moot. If the trunk repairs leave it function and sound, that is ultimately what is important on a bottom line basis. It is not unusual for wheel arches to be flared on personalized Tigers, so if done well, that would not make it an oddity at any gathering. As a regular driver car, they might even get the owner some compliments.

The major questions I would then have relate to structural integrity. What other rust or accident damage has been fixed, if there was any, and how well was it done? It is very curious that the rear shelf and trunk had to be repaired. Why? That then points to other associated areas that may have needed or are still in need of repair. It is unclear if your local Tiger guys gave any opinions on the undercarriage condition or quality of any repairs there. You are right to be concerned, if the seller's information given however well intentioned is factually wrong. One always is concerned about what neither you or he knows.

I admit to being a bit philosophical today!

Cheers, Gene

AHudson777 said:

2. Massive trunk floor replacement, not so bad in and of itself yet awkward patch work indicates possible previous rust damage.
3. Rear parcel shelf area. Flat, inappropriate, unoriginal looking in most respects. Fuel pump access covered.
4. Transmission hump severely altered, possibly for C4 addition.

Click to expand...

Red flags for an Alger.......they could not replicate the Tiger, so that modded the hell out of it. I would not spend Donald Trump's money on that car.

Duke, you seem to have roared right past my point that if it would pass a TAC inspection it might be an okay purchase at some price.

I agree that transmission tunnel mods are a major warning sign but submit neither of us have enough information to declare it an Alger or a Tiger at this point.

Gene

cadreamn67 said:

I am curious like several others as to whether or not it is a Tiger or a clone. At the end of the day, if it would pass a TAC inspection, I would then say the question really comes down to the quality of repairs being acceptable to you. It appears that on that basis alone they are not, and it is your money.

<snip>
The major questions I would then have relate to structural integrity. What other rust or accident damage has been fixed, if there was any, and how well was it done? It is very curious that the rear shelf and trunk had to be repaired. Why? That then points to other associated areas that may have needed or are still in need of repair. It is unclear if your local Tiger guys gave any opinions on the undercarriage condition or quality of any repairs there. You are right to be concerned, if the seller's information given however well intentioned is factually wrong. One always is concerned about what neither you or he knows.

I admit to being a bit philosophical today!

Cheers, Gene

Click to expand...

Great input. Made me smile in agreement. The shelf was modded for a roll bar, never installed. The trunk was represented as 'the way he got it'. Car was done on partial rotisserie, so structure represented as sound. Guy has a very strong reputation for body work, though in this case inauthentic, including flared wheel arches. Slight, but quite 'there'. Call me naive, I don't think the seller has said/done anything to decieve, he's just not Tiger-immersed.

Duke Mk1a said:

Red flags for an Alger.......they could not replicate the Tiger, so that modded the hell out of it. I would not spend Donald Trump's money on that car.

Click to expand...

Spoke to TAC inspector who knows car. "Real Tiger". Though I do appreciate your input, knowing this forum looks out for members.

value

If the car is sound, and considering what rust buckets go for in my part of the country(12-15K) and what the selling price was on Ebay, it's not that bad of a deal. You've not mentioned anything that would keep it from passing TAC and you have a verbal confirmation from a TAC inspector it's a Tiger. If you wanted a straight original, correct car that had been restored you wouldn't be anywhere near what it sold for. Again I'm assuming the closing price on Ebay is what you were going to pay for it. Looks to me like it could certainly be enjoyed and challenges to make it original are not unsurmountable.