Front end mods !

[66TigerMK1A]

I kinda did a number on my front end this past winter ( purists read no further ! ) and I thought I'd share some pics of it on this forum . Modifications included a new power rack and pinion setup, adjustable coil-overs, crossmember brace and ackerman correcting linkage (my updated ideas on Lou Anderson's original kit). Just click on my nic and then 'show all albums ' ... I welcome any comments and can say that at least so far, it's all working incredibly well...even exceeding my expectations...
I did a few other projects on the car as well and will post when I get some more pics up ...

Jim
B382000446

 

[67 Tiger]

I like... Do you think the coil-overs work better than club springs and koni's? The reinforcement for the subframe looks good also. I was just asking someone about that Lou Anderson kit the other day, and how it compares with Dales, MGB/Midget kit. Power steering that might be going a little TOO far, but then again.....

I saw an artical in an old Tiger Tales where the owner welded a piece of plate to the front of the subframe, just below the seam. The plate ran from just before the lower fulcrum mounts, outboard to just where the shock tower starts. This would take a plate about 8 inches long and about 1 1/2 to 2 inches wide, with a cut out around the front lower a arm bushing. The plate runs horizontal and sort of parallel to the ground.

 

[66TigerMK1A]

I can't say that the coilovers work 'better' .. but I wanted the ability to adjust the ride height and the QA1's gave me that...what I took out was stock coils that had been chopped 2" ( apparently too much) and then had aluminum coil spacers between the coils... rode like cr@p and I didn't want to buy 3 sets of springs to get things right... and I like 'tinkering'

Dale's kit has mixed reviews... it's a lot quicker... ( same rack as my wife's Sprite) which makes parking a b#itch but I've heard people say they 'think' the ackerman is better using that setup with the MGB arms... Mayfs numbers don't agree though.

Table 1
Ackerman Turn Angles
Inside Wheel Input Outside Wheel Output
Degrees Perfect Tiger MGB Special
1.00 0.99 1.00 1.00 1.00
2.00 1.96 2.02 2.01 2.01
3.00 2.92 3.04 3.02 3.03
4.00 3.86 4.07 4.04 4.05
5.00 4.78 5.11 5.06 5.07
6.00 5.69 6.16 6.09 6.11
7.00 6.58 7.22 7.12 7.15
8.00 7.46 8.30 8.15 8.19
9.00 8.32 9.38 9.20 9.25
10.00 9.17 10.47 10.24 10.31
11.00 10.01 11.58 11.30 11.37
12.00 10.83 12.69 12.36 12.45
13.00 11.64 13.82 13.43 13.53
14.00 12.44 14.97 14.50 14.63
15.00 13.22 16.12 15.58 15.73
16.00 14.00 17.30 16.67 16.84
17.00 14.77 18.49 17.77 17.96
18.00 15.52 19.70 18.88 19.10
19.00 16.27 20.92 19.99 20.24
20.00 17.00 22.17 21.12 21.40
21.00 17.73 23.44 22.26 22.57
22.00 18.44 24.73 23.41 23.76
23.00 19.15 26.05 24.57 24.96
24.00 19.85 27.40 25.74 26.18
25.00 20.55 28.78 26.93 27.42
26.00 21.23 30.20 28.14 28.68
27.00 21.91 31.65 29.36 29.96
28.00 22.59 33.15 30.60 31.26
29.00 23.25 34.71 31.87 32.60
30.00 23.91 36.32 33.15 33.96

I haven't checked my setup thoroughly, but I know from some early measurements that with the inside wheel @ 20°, I get just over 17° on the outside which is just about perfect...at full lock the overall length from steering arm to steering arm gains about 1" . I had Lou Anderson's original drawings and mocked up his setup but it appeared to have terrible 'bump' steer so I found that mounting the heim pivot directly to the crossmember instead of the lower A-arm cured most of that... I also used MGB steering arms so the turning circle isn't reduced quite as much as his setup



I put in the power steering partly because my rack need rebuilding.. also my car had 245/50's (not any more) on the front which made it a bear to steer... and also I knew it had been done before so was at least possible although I think my installation is quite unique .
The crossmember brace idea came from a couple 'hot rodders' that were over for beers and I was saying how the car has issues with the crossmember wanting to cave... they said that maybe a 'monte carlo' style bar tying the two tops together would work... I actually had one fitted across running in front of the block and behind the water pump but in the end decided to brace each side directly which I think is a very simple/strong fix.

Jim
B382000446

 

[67 Tiger]

Did you use MGB arms with your steering or are they still Sunbeams. Also 30?some years ago, I saw an article or ad for a rack and pinion with a faster steering ratio, that you could install in your Sunbeam housing. I think a CAT member was making them. Do you know anything about those, or do they still exsist. I'm sure it wouldnt be to hard to design something on the computer, with some kind of cad program, If I knew how to use CAD. My front end is about to be worked on and fixed, so I might as well make any modifcations now. I plan to stay more toward the stock side, but better steering and brakes sure would be nice.

 

[XTIGERX]

I bought that quick steer rack and pinion but never was installed. I had Anderson's ackerman angle kit installed at the time and felt I didn't need both. With the kit installed I was able to do a u-turn in a 20' street. Had the kit removed when I had the front end reinforced. Not sure what happened to the quick steer R&P.

Justin

 

[zero2toy]

We installed Dales MGB steering rack mounting kit with a MGB rack before the TEAE event in DC last october, and in my opinion, daily driving, its a little more difficult to do U turns, but parking seamed ok. The definite bonus was during autocross, the car seemed to react to steering input much faster than the stock rack. So for racing purposes i like the mgb rack, and for daily driving... who needs to do U turns, just whip that sucker round, its more fun that way anyway

I am really interested in your bracing set up. Im not seeing how the bracing worked from your pictures, but then again i havent looked at the tiger in about a year, could you post more pictures?

Thanks
tiger owners son

 

[Michael Lent]

Please help the web challenged

I'm sorry that I'm so web challenged because I'd love to see your album. I'd like to fix the ackerman problems and maybe add some other improvements to my Tiger front suspension / steering, but alas I'm clueless as to how and where I might click on your "nic". Can you help me out? You also mention "Dale's Kit" could you send me a starting point to research that? If you have any other front end/ brake upgrade information for the Tiger I'd really appreciate it. As yet I don't have the new Tec Tips/ Shop Notes but I will order that soon. Thanks very much. Michael (66 Mk 1A) New Jersey

 

[66TigerMK1A]

O.K. Michael ... what I should have said was...click on my name ...a menu box will appear... and then click on View Public Profile which will take you here...http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/member.php?u=68
Look on the right side of the page and click on Show all albums and then just click on whatever you want to look at.

Dale's kit is a set of adapters and mounts that let you install an early MG Midget rack and pinion to your Tiger. You have to supply the rack, some L.H. Alpine tie rods... and a pair of MGB steering arms. It was designed to alleviate some of the ackerman problem.

 

[cadreamn67]

Michael, I learned everything I know about Dale A's kit from the Ackerman Angle fix article on the tigersunited.com web site. I highly recommend it if you have not seen it. When I installed mine, I did not remove the cross member as the article recommended, I just pulled the radiator. That worked out fine since I was not doing any other front suspension work.

A word of caution if you do decide to go that route. Being on a tight budget, I bought some 2 used MG racks and tried to rebuild them. One had what appeared to be an unhardened teeth rack that was hopelessly worn. The other was in much better shape in that regard but had some noticably worn inner tie rod arms. Trying to rebuild the inner tie rod ends was an absolutely frustrating exercise. There is an excellent article from the MG guys on how to do it, but I found it almost impossible to get them apart to add new hand made shims to adjust the endplay. (Could not find necessary shims anywhere, so tried to make some myself out of brass shim stock,,.) Fortunately out of the two racks I was able to put together one that worked. But the biggest problem is that you can no longer get a special felt washer that is needed to seal the pinion shaft. The result is that with this washer inevitably worn, you get rack fluid bubbling out the pinion shaft due to the air movement inside the rack as you turn the pinion. The tigersunited,com article recommended using Mobil 1 synthetic grease, but I was reluctant to do that and stayed with a 90 weight fluid. Could not see how the inner tie rod ends would get lubricated with a heavy grease in the rack tube. The fluid needs to get into the bellows area to lubricate them. But maybe the grease would alievate the leakage problem. Anyway I came up with a rather unorthodox fix that seems to be working. Bottom line, if you go the Dale A kit route, get a professionally rebuilt rack (they are not cheap..) and save yourself a lot of frustration. Then it is just a bolt up installation.

BTW, the installation does also call for using a 5/8 inch spacer in order to install the MGB steering arms. I made mine out of a carefully measured combination of a grade 8 nut and washer.

As I read that article, the resulting setup was tested and said to reduce the Ackerman angle to zero. I read that to mean that both wheels now turn at the same angle rather than getting toe in as original steering setup produces. If so, it really does not fix the Ackerman angle as such by giving you toe-out as you turn , but at least eliminates the stock toe in behaviour. Obviously that would significantly reduce the loading on the fulcrum pins.

BTW, does anyone know if it has been determined if the earlier post about measuring the impact on wheel angles with Dale A's kit included a setup using the required MGB arms? I know the question was asked. If it did not, that probably explains the discrepancy in measured results.

Hope some of this is helpful! Gene