Heater Control Valve

[DD (CA)]

I've joined the team!!! Valve gave out as I lext the garage. Good luck there I suppose. Yay for me. Anyway, I ran search in forum and reviewed CAT shop notes.

Understand there are replacements for earlier MK1, I need a later for the MK1A. Rick catalog says NLA. Havent called yet. Realize too that there are hacks out there to improve upon any replacements. W and others suggest use of other maker valve (Ford, MG, etc...) or earlier valve. Understand also lever orientation issues when using substitutes.

What I ask now is...

1). Current source for replacements if any?
2). Modifications needed if not pre modded from seller?
3). Hose I.D. So i can temporarily place an elbow, ball valve, cap or similar in line. Home Depot PN anyone?
4). Any other BTDT is welcome, thx.

Thanks

 

[0neoffive]

View attachment 17522I've joined the team!!! Valve gave out as I lext the garage. Good luck there I suppose. Yay for me. Anyway, I ran search in forum and reviewed CAT shop notes.

Understand there are replacements for earlier MK1, I need a later for the MK1A. Rick catalog says NLA. Havent called yet. Realize too that there are hacks out there to improve upon any replacements. W and others suggest use of other maker valve (Ford, MG, etc...) or earlier valve. Understand also lever orientation issues when using substitutes.

What I ask now is...

1). Current source for replacements if any?
2). Modifications needed if not pre modded from seller?
3). Hose I.D. So i can temporarily place an elbow, ball valve, cap or similar in line. Home Depot PN anyone?
4). Any other BTDT is welcome, thx.

Thanks

Moss has the closest unit and they have upgraded from previous manufacturing failures (AKA cheap). #780-411 So far my installs are surviving.

 

[michael-king]

Moss has the closest unit and they have upgraded from previous manufacturing failures (AKA cheap). #780-411 So far my installs are surviving.

Randy when did they make the new ones?

My original is leaking through the pin....so has been bypassed... I had not ordered the MGC one due to all the failures.

It would be good to know if a durable replacement is available.

 

[IvaTiger]

Can they be rebuilt by taking apart and replacing the rubber parts ?

 

[DD (CA)]

Moss has the closest unit and they have upgraded from previous manufacturing failures (AKA cheap). #780-411 So far my installs are surviving.

Message heard and well received. Have an order in. Not cheap is correct. This one made it 5-6 years. Thanks Randy

Michael, yup. Through the pin. I would doubt a repair would be very secure. Rather, choosing open or closed and then fusing one might work. Ill drag out the original and this one once off. (Still lazy so if you can share I.D. Id go buy a barb elbow or splitter before tearing into it).

Thanks,
Derek

 

[65beam]

I called and asked if the valve had been reengineered in any way to eliminate the usual leak. They have no idea if anything different has been done to current stock.

 

[mr55s]

I have made this style from a Morris Minor application from Moss. It has a mounting surface or “foot” that you hacksaw off. Then I filed the now cut outlet flat on the end, and machined an aluminum nipple to finish it off and JB welded it in place. The Morris Minor one I think was around $49. It has not leaked at the machined nipple portion that I used JB weld on. A possible solution for those that want to try.

 

[HolyCat]

Mike Michaels wrote a great article about trying to figure out why his Mk IA valves kept failing. I don't know offhand the edition, but it was in a 2020 Tiger Tales. It was repriinted in the latest C.A.T. Shop Notes. The bottom line is that the heater valve control cable can be adjusted too much one way or another and the result is that the rubber diapham is overstretched to the point of ripping.

 

[mr55s]

Mike Michaels wrote a great article about trying to figure out why his Mk IA valves kept failing. I don't know offhand the edition, but it was in a 2020 Tiger Tales. It was repriinted in the latest C.A.T. Shop Notes. The bottom line is that the heater valve control cable can be adjusted too much one way or another and the result is that the rubber diapham is overstretched to the point of ripping.

It’s important to place your interior heater control valve in the off position on the dash, then tighten the cable in place at that neutral position. If this is done, the adjuster arm on the dash can only move it as much as the adjuster will allow. I always place the interior adjuster in the off position when the car is parked so it doesn’t stretch the rubber diaphram and shorten it’s life.

 

[HolyCat]

It’s important to place your interior heater control valve in the off position on the dash, then tighten the cable in place at that neutral position. If this is done, the adjuster arm on the dash can only move it as much as the adjuster will allow. I always place the interior adjuster in the off position when the car is parked so it doesn’t stretch the rubber diaphram and shorten it’s life.

Your suggestion makes sense to have the control valve just barely in the off position before connecting the cable while the selector knob is in the OFF location. People might want to know how they can tell the heater control valve IS in the off position without already stressing the rubber diaphram. And IF the control valve was manufacture incorrectly, would it be possible that the diaphram could be overstressed and torn when one slides the control know to the farthest heat setting?

 

[mr55s]

Dave, If you have the control valve mounted without the cable hooked up, it’s in its neutral position. Kind of like holding it in your hand, that’s where the rubber diaphragm is not stretched in either direction. Just attach the cable at that point without moving the plunger lever at the end. When your finished your drive for the day make sure the dash board lever is parked in the middle or “Warm” location, that will allow the diaphragm not to be stretched either way.

 

[DD (CA)]

Updates amd record keeping for the next folk (with my wrench level or lower. Thats a low bar...)

Heater control valve replacement

Temporary fix:
5/8 hose barb splice fitting
Everlast 695 735 at HD. Aisle 16 ish.

Tools:
Old sock
Channel locks
telescoping magnet
5/16" socket (valve holder)
1/4" socket (cable stay / set screw)
Smaller flathead (opti.)

Let car (coolant) cool. Place old sock on rubber hoses at valve connection, gently clamp with pliers and twist to break free but leave hoses attached for now (dried coolant had affixed them). Be careful not to drop nuts and screws in next steps; magnet there to remind you. Loosen cable stay screw. . Loosen cable shield cover clamp. Remove nuts with lock washers holding the valve holder bracket (2). Careful not to let these drop. The bracket clamp together w/o nuts at bottom and may also drop once separated. It may choose to lodge in your downpipes. Remove hoses. Gently slide control valve off cable to front. Reinstall opposite.

In MY case, the instructions above for both full COLD or WARM ("neutral") made perfect sense. Alas, with new valve in place there is some friction on wire at lever connection even w/o tightening the set screw / cable stay screw. Therefore, was unable to let valve choose a pure neutral position. Once attached in COLD lever position and valve lever in close to if not fully closed position, I tightened. Can def agree moving lever to HOT seems to stress the valve. So.. Ill not use that position. But can see this being a problem should others drive and need the car hotter inside (hah...). But in (pre)overheating situ...do have some concern.

YMMV, no modification performed, going to see how it goes "for now."

 

[Theorangetiger]

Dave, If you have the control valve mounted without the cable hooked up, it’s in its neutral position. Kind of like holding it in your hand, that’s where the rubber diaphragm is not stretched in either direction. Just attach the cable at that point without moving the plunger lever at the end. When your finished your drive for the day make sure the dash board lever is parked in the middle or “Warm” location, that will allow the diaphragm not to be stretched either way.

Does this method also make sense for the MKI valve? I'm not sure if it has an internal diaphragm or not.

 

[DD (CA)]

Later Heater Control Valve comparo
All in all, pretty impressive reproductions of the original valve. Valve in middle supplied 2015 or so and chamber has been separated, with rivets. I may decide to disassemble to review internals. But can see the diaphragm inside is certainly surface damaged at minimum. Maybe Ill run a boroscope first... bottom Moss supplied and although I balked at $20 shipping ground estimate, to their credit it made it to CA in a couple days. Well done.

How many differences between each can you spot?

 

[Hoghead]

Ashley Hinton in the UK makes the proper early and late valves, heater core, blower, and a few other Smiths parts.
Excellent quality, and he will sell direct to end user on Fleabay as well as to specialty re-sellers

 

[michael-king]

Ashley Hinton in the UK makes the proper early and late valves, heater core, blower, and a few other Smiths parts.
Excellent quality, and he will sell direct to end user on Fleabay as well as to specialty re-sellers

I wasn't sure he makes the valves.. I know he 3d prints blower parts and has heater cores made...I saw him selling the early style valves....not sure about the late style.. and not sure they are a different mfg from Moss

 

[65beam]

I wasn't sure he makes the valves.. I know he 3d prints blower parts and has heater cores made...I saw him selling the early style valves....not sure about the late style.. and not sure they are a different mfg from Moss

It's inmaterial who makes them as long as they work and don't leak. I bought two of the late style valves from them and have one on our blue car. I always try to keep spares if an issue happens. It's been on the car for a few years now and no leaks. Back in 2018 I bought the blower motor, squirrel cage and the housing when we were restoring our white Harrington. The housing has the lettering, etc. The quality is great and in one of my conversations with them I was told that they have the tooling once owned by Smith. They do make the Tiger specific bracket for installing the late style valve on the bulkhead brace. I have a couple of them in stock if anyone wants a new bracket.

 

[michael-king]

It's inmaterial who makes them as long as they work and don't leak. I bought two of the late style valves from them and have one on our blue car. I always try to keep spares if an issue happens. It's been on the car for a few years now and no leaks. Back in 2018 I bought the blower motor, squirrel cage and the housing when we were restoring our white Harrington. The housing has the lettering, etc. The quality is great and in one of my conversations with them I was told that they have the tooling once owned by Smith. They do make the Tiger specific bracket for installing the late style valve on the bulkhead brace. I have a couple of them in stock if anyone wants a new bracket.

Bob,

If the issue is the repros are failing and all the suppliers are getting them from the same source it becomes very relevant.

It was well known that the ones from Moss were failing and even some of the Sunbeam suppliers had sourced the same ones and had similar issues.

Therefore if the MG supplier Ashley Hinton was getting them from the same mfg as MOSS they would also have the same issue.. and there is no benefit buying it from a different supplier if it's from the same origin.

If Moss have solved the issue and Ashley gets from the same supplier then one would assume they will now be ok... If his earlier ones were from the same supplier then they will also fail if they are used as intended.

There are many members who drive their cars often and put millage on them beyond on and off a trailer or short local trips in ideal weather so the reliability and longevity of the parts becomes an issue.

 

[65beam]

Bob,

If the issue is the repros are failing and all the suppliers are getting them from the same source it becomes very relevant.

It was well known that the ones from Moss were failing and even some of the Sunbeam suppliers had sourced the same ones and had similar issues.

Therefore if the MG supplier Ashley Hinton was getting them from the same mfg as MOSS they would also have the same issue.. and there is no benefit buying it from a different supplier if it's from the same origin.

If Moss have solved the issue and Ashley gets from the same supplier then one would assume they will now be ok... If his earlier ones were from the same supplier then they will also fail if they are used as intended.

There are many members who drive their cars often and put millage on them beyond on and off a trailer or short local trips in ideal weather so the reliability and longevity of the parts becomes an issue.

If you have questions and concerns about an item of any kind then rather than assume just ask Ashley Hinton where they buy their valves and have they been reengineered to lessen leaks. They do have a phone number that I can send to you. Any vendor that is reliable and has a good reputation will be very glad to tell details about their products. They have been around awhile so it's apparent that they don't sell and make profit by selling junk. As far as driving the cars my only comment is that I have probably covered more miles behind the wheel of a Sunbeam than you ever will. One item that has to be figured in at most shows, Uniteds and SUNI is enough space to park trailers. When I set up logistics for the last Dayton United I asked for enough space to park 100 trailers and cars. I also had a backup lot at the Nutter Center for over flow parking of trailers. At the last SUNI the organizers worked a deal to use the parking lot of a closed Sears store for parking trailers. There were a few rows of trailers plus I seem to remember one of the classic car haulers bringing in a load of west coast Tigers. The use of my trailers also make it much easier to carry the wife's mobility scooter if we're going somewhere that I can't rent either a golf cart or mobility scooter. My question is that if you're driving a Tiger and based on my time of driving a Tiger and the heat coming into the interior then why do you need a heater?

 

[IvaTiger]

If you have questions and concerns about an item of any kind then rather than assume just ask Ashley Hinton where they buy their valves and have they been reengineered to lessen leaks. They do have a phone number that I can send to you. Any vendor that is reliable and has a good reputation will be very glad to tell details about their products. They have been around awhile so it's apparent that they don't sell and make profit by selling junk. As far as driving the cars my only comment is that I have probably covered more miles behind the wheel of a Sunbeam than you ever will. One item that has to be figured in at most shows, Uniteds and SUNI is enough space to park trailers. When I set up logistics for the last Dayton United I asked for enough space to park 100 trailers and cars. I also had a backup lot at the Nutter Center for over flow parking of trailers. At the last SUNI the organizers worked a deal to use the parking lot of a closed Sears store for parking trailers. There were a few rows of trailers plus I seem to remember one of the classic car haulers bringing in a load of west coast Tigers. The use of my trailers also make it much easier to carry the wife's mobility scooter if we're going somewhere that I can't rent either a golf cart or mobility scooter. My question is that if you're driving a Tiger and based on my time of driving a Tiger and the heat coming into the interior then why do you need a heater?

I appreciate your last sentence and very much go along with your thoughts. I did buy a new heater valve for my mk 1 from England trusting that it would not fail. I won’t be driving in cool weather here in Arizona so a heater would not be needed. I will run all the hoses and locate the heater valve properly but will block off coolant flow
I will also make up a copper bypass tube and not have a heater core which would be a pain to replace if it failed. I am happy that there are others who question the need for a heater.