Is large oil filter needed?

[CLIFF_MK1]

If you need or want to remain stock, the remote oil filter (stock) is your only choice. However, if your Tiger is personalized or modified, you have some options. Joe Parianti recently wrote " An Alternative to the Original Tiger Remote Oil Filter" in the Roots Review (vol 45, No 6 June 2018). See attached picture of the final set up.

Now, this is great, but I have a question. Is this really necessary? I mean, why not use a small oil filter that spins directly to the engine block? Here is a picture of a WIX filter that I am running on my Tiger with Club headers. Fits great, is simple and does not add to engine compartment clutter.

Now, the stock and other remote filter methods look neat, but there are some disadvantages such as lines that can leak, engine clutter, blocking engine cooling airflow, and unnecessarily complicating something that does not really lead to increased performance. The use of a large oil filter, however, may increase reliability, or, hopefully not prevent engine failure.

Does anyone have any data or other information on the negative consequences of using a small or very small oil filter on a performance small block ford or other performance engine. Am I taking a real risk using this WIX filter? Cliff

 

[Warren]

Square inches

On another forum several engineer types cut up unused filters and measured the in sq.", of filter media. I recall Wix was one of the better ones. Fram was the smallest in sq."

Be nice to see comparison that tested the ability of the media to do it's job.

What bothers me about the filter in the vertical position is the ability to force reliance on the anti draining thin inner flap.

I think there's a lot to be gained in cooling from just having a remote oil filter and the lines. I have these thoughts from air cooled VW days.

I once posed a similar question to a good buddy from Honda R and D.
How can Honda's have such tiny filters? The response was we build better tighter motors.

What's the old pay me now or pay me later quote from commercial.
Think about not just miles but engine hours and short trips.
Get a better filter maybe a glass mat one if you are worried.

 

[65beam]

filter

Wix uses a metal base plate for the filter media to set on. Fram and several others use a cardboard base plate on their less expensive (cheaper) filters. The Wix filter has a better filter medium with a smaller micron size filter medium which results in better filtering of the oil. The Wix has a much better bypass valve. I've cut some cheap filters open for customers over the last several decades and found no bypass valve. Could be due to the base plate used. Doug and I had this discussion yesterday concerning a Tiger on which he just installed the small filter for a customer. For normal street use of the small filter is fine. Just don't tighten it with a filter wrench. You may destroy the gasket. Take time and look at some of the filters on the shelf at places like Autozone. Some of the older cars had larger fuel filters than some of the new oil filters now in use.

 

[65beam]

filter

On another forum several engineer types cut up unused filters and measured the in sq.", of filter media. I recall Wix was one of the better ones. Fram was the smallest in sq."



I once posed a similar question to a good buddy from Honda R and D.
How can Honda's have such tiny filters? The response was we build better tighter motors.

What's the old pay me now or pay me later quote from commercial.
Think about not just miles but engine hours and short trips.
Get a better filter maybe a glass mat one if you are worried.

We're the distributor for Honda oil to dealers in this area. We recently had to start stocking a 0W16 for the new cars. This has a lot to do with mileage requirements and I asked techs what the clearances are. Several said .001. Don't know what variance is allowed. GM stopped the Dexos licensing of 5W20 and told owners to switch to a 0W20. Clearances are tighter and the engines are much better and last longer.

 

[spmdr]

Cliff, I don't get The ROOTES Review, but I'm wondering how well the first picture of the inverted oil filter works/fits.

My guess is the oil lines get in the way of the steering/front cross member.

Another thing, inverted filters drain and then take more time to refill.

Feel free to explain how delaying oil to the bearings is a good thing.

And then there is this concept of trapping STUFF IN the filter, and not have it DRAIN out.

...just saying.

Some things are not good ideas.

BTW, I have run small, block mounted, oil filters with no problems.

 

[michael-king]

We're the distributor for Honda oil to dealers in this area. We recently had to start stocking a 0W16 for the new cars. This has a lot to do with mileage requirements and I asked techs what the clearances are. Several said .001. Don't know what variance is allowed. GM stopped the Dexos licensing of 5W20 and told owners to switch to a 0W20. Clearances are tighter and the engines are much better and last longer.

Im wondering if the metals for bearing, crank and caps are also higher quality in the current engines. I know the alloy in the rootes heads is very soft and the cranks and bearings in the 1494s somewhat delicate ...

Could a rootes or other period motor be setup with such tight clearance or would the expansion rates and deflection of the components cause issues faster?

I know in current prep of period race motors they can run very precise tollerance.. But often the components like cranks, followers, bearings and rods etc are all modern manufactured with different materials....

Just thinking aloud

 

[65beam]

needed

Michael,
One of the industrial plants that I sell lubes to is a supplier of engine and suspension parts to several auto companies. They have a line that takes a square chunk of metal and when the machine is done it spits out a set of main bearing caps for Honda engines. They tell me that the caps are all the same specs so I guess all the other engine tolerances are treated the same. Even the way lube oils have to maintain a certain film thickness during the process. Is everything built better? Must be since you can find engines running forever as long as the electronics work. I sell to a lot of stores that do oil changes and we pick up their used oil. We now find the used oil gallons to be closer to their new oil numbers so the engines don't use much oil. It would take a lot of work to get an Alpine engine to todays specs as far as bearings and other components.

 

[Warren]

Email list

One thing I like about the email list is that it recycles the O.P.s, question with every response.

In relating to the Tiger remote or the pictured one. The Wix shortly it's performance vs the full size. Bringing up the fact that modern motors are built to better tolerances than a S.B.F. was something I started and now hope to pull back on topic.

So back to the thread and the concerns. Hanging the filter in a vertical position puts a huge hope it works on the antidrainback valve. The shorty Wix and it's similar units were seen on much smaller motors. Look at the X reference for it's number. I had one on my 122S Volvo 4 cyl. One could overcome the short comings of the shorty filter with better filter medium and upping the change intervals. What bothers me is the proximity to the header tube and it's heat.

 

[michael-king]

Sorry, i helped this one onto the side road.

Id personally not mount the filter upside down .. I have mine remote i the front guard and has braided hoses with some protection over that incase of the. In 1000 stone etc hitting a line.

It keeps away from.engine bay heat, longer routing for oil to cool and clears engine bay.

As a side note filters are cheap so i just change them each time with the oil.. Its not like you will go through more than 2-3 in a year max as a hobby car.... So why not? Cheap insurance

 

[CLIFF_MK1]

Michael, sounds like you have an excellent compromise method for a remote oil filter. Joe wrote an excellent article with part numbers and pictures, and the filter does not have to be mounted upside down but put any where depending on the desired location. The article is also on the web, but I hesitate to put the source here without permission. I'll see if it's OK. The Roots Review is published by Tigers East/Alpines East and is an excellent resource if you care to join. Cliff

 

[CLIFF_MK1]

The spreadsheet for parts with photos can be found here. By Joe Parlanti

http://bit.ly/2wL8MLT

A tutorial for making AN hoses is here, http://bit.ly/2k0PoRS

Joe also makes LED tail, parking, dash and headlights for Tigers (no affiliation)

Cliff