What is a ROTA Number?

[0neoffive]

Tunnel is a tiger specific panel, not on other rootes cars ( commercial or passenger) that im aware.

Randy, are you thinking that mayne the bellhousing to firewall stamping or tunnel extension stamping were from another car?

It's just that we've repaired these rusted and bashed critters so many times over the decades, I got curious as to who birthed the darned things.

 

[hottigr]

If CKD means Complete Knock Down or Crated Knocked Down, maybe ROTA means Rolled Off Tiger Assembly...

 

[at the beach]

The Tiger tunnel was stamped by a Jensen subcontractor. While Pressed Steel built over 90% of the Tiger, the remaining modifications were done by Jensen. By mutual agreement Jensen used their normal supply chain for many of the additional pieces needed for the Tiger. These included the tunnel and steering rack.

It is my understanding that both Tigers and Alpines came down the same Pressed Steel assembly line. Tiger bodies differ from Alpines from some of the earliest stages in the assembly process. Some metal pieces are clearly different. This is seen by looking at assembly line photos and comparing the resulting bodies.

Buck

 

[65beam]

Given tigers started production in 1964 and interceptors in 1966.... An easy no to that suggestion.

Not to mention i doubt a torqueflite auto that most Jensen had would fit in a tiger tunnel pressing.

Jenson did build the C-V8 prior to the Interceptor. It was a glass body but had a Chrysler V8 engine. Jenson and Rootes could have used the C-V8 tunnel as a pattern to make a steel version for a Tiger. You never know if it fits until you try. Possibly "some modification required". Wonder how many Tigers still have a stock tunnel?

 

[Warren]

I've had 5.5 Tigers and only the .5 one had a tunnel from another car. It was pretty obvious as it's torch job didn't match like 1.5" in most all places. Ever try to make a part bigger? It might be like the carpenters I've cut that board three times and it's still too short but in reality it's really difficult to weld something together and then make it look like it was never a cut piece of metal with pieces added.

Lots of cars got a Sawzall hack job or worse. A real popular "there I fixed it," area is the too small area for the shift linkage adjustment, or let's cut some more holes in the firewall so you can get the transmission out with the engine in the car...

 

[0neoffive]

The Tiger tunnel was stamped by a Jensen subcontractor. While Pressed Steel built over 90% of the Tiger, the remaining modifications were done by Jensen. By mutual agreement Jensen used their normal supply chain for many of the additional pieces needed for the Tiger. These included the tunnel and steering rack.

It is my understanding that both Tigers and Alpines came down the same Pressed Steel assembly line. Tiger bodies differ from Alpines from some of the earliest stages in the assembly process. Some metal pieces are clearly different. This is seen by looking at assembly line photos and comparing the resulting bodies.

Buck

Sharing parts & pieces, I have found Triumph marking #'s on the steering rack castings.

 

[65beam]

I've had 5.5 Tigers and only the .5 one had a tunnel from another car. It was pretty obvious as it's torch job didn't match like 1.5" in most all places. Ever try to make a part bigger? It might be like the carpenters I've cut that board three times and it's still too short but in reality it's really difficult to weld something together and then make it look like it was never a cut piece of metal with pieces added.

Lots of cars got a Sawzall hack job or worse. A real popular "there I fixed it," area is the too small area for the shift linkage adjustment, or let's cut some more holes in the firewall so you can get the transmission out with the engine in the car...

"Some modification required". I've heard an old guy in Dayton say that many times.

 

[65beam]

The Tiger tunnel was stamped by a Jensen subcontractor. While Pressed Steel built over 90% of the Tiger, the remaining modifications were done by Jensen. By mutual agreement Jensen used their normal supply chain for many of the additional pieces needed for the Tiger. These included the tunnel and steering rack.

It is my understanding that both Tigers and Alpines came down the same Pressed Steel assembly line. Tiger bodies differ from Alpines from some of the earliest stages in the assembly process. Some metal pieces are clearly different. This is seen by looking at assembly line photos and comparing the resulting bodies.

Buck

Buck,
Were the mods to adapt the rack to the crossmember done in house at Jenson or was that done by an outside contractor?

 

[Austin Healer]

Jensen mocked up the pressing for the trans tunnel, bulkhead and top hats and then sent it out as a sublet. (to Doubty Boulton Paul) I have a fair amount of experience with Jensen procedures as I have made my living restoring Austin Healeys for the last 40 plus years.. if you look at the BMC ledgers you see that they were all made out of numerical order as well. On the body number tags on the big Healey there is a batch code (of 10-20 cars) and then the body number. early Healey has body tags started with "JM" for Jensen Motors. It's not a stretch to assume that "JAL" is Jensen assembly line, and "SAL" is Sunbeam assembly line.

I am guessing that the ROTA number was an internal ordering code used by Rootes to get shells identified before they were delivered to Jensen. If you look at the JAL tag, these were applied prior to painting the main shell. There is no color under them. This would indicate that these were probably screwed to the body by pressed steel.. who supplied them, Rootes or Jensen, Is unknown. Incidentally, an identical shaped tag was screwed to Austin Healey Bugeye Sprites which were also made by pressed steel.

Looking at the chassis tag you can see that there are three different fonts. Probably because they were supplied by Rootes partially filled out and then finished by Jensen when the car was fully assembled.

The fonts for the engine number and part of the chassis number match the fonts that Jensen used for the Austin Healey (100/4, 100/6 and 3000)

 

[Austin Healer]

Something else interesting that I have noticed... the holes for the JAL tag are not drilled into the scuttle, they're punched. This is the same as the holes for the carpet studs inside the car. Alpines are also not drilled for the SAL tag.

 

[IvaTiger]

Jensen mocked up the pressing for the trans tunnel, bulkhead and top hats and then sent it out as a sublet. (to Doubty Boulton Paul) I have a fair amount of experience with Jensen procedures as I have made my living restoring Austin Healeys for the last 40 plus years.. if you look at the BMC ledgers you see that they were all made out of numerical order as well. On the body number tags on the big Healey there is a batch code (of 10-20 cars) and then the body number. early Healey has body tags started with "JM" for Jensen Motors. It's not a stretch to assume that "JAL" is Jensen assembly line, and "SAL" is Sunbeam assembly line.

I am guessing that the ROTA number was an internal ordering code used by Rootes to get shells identified before they were delivered to Jensen. If you look at the JAL tag, these were applied prior to painting the main shell. There is no color under them. This would indicate that these were probably screwed to the body by pressed steel.. who supplied them, Rootes or Jensen, Is unknown. Incidentally, an identical shaped tag was screwed to Austin Healey Bugeye Sprites which were also made by pressed steel.

Looking at the chassis tag you can see that there are three different fonts. Probably because they were supplied by Rootes partially filled out and then finished by Jensen when the car was fully assembled.

The fonts for the engine number and part of the chassis number match the fonts that Jensen used for the Austin Healey (100/4, 100/6 and 3000)

Appreciate the interesting information

 

[KenF]

I for one would love to see a detailed explanation of the typical Tiger assembly. From the order initiation, frame and body assembly of Alpines and Tigers (without giving away too much info), what was generally done at each station on the assembly line, when primer, paint, and undercoating was applied, number assignments, suspension, trim, wiring, interior, drive train install, what was sent from Pressed Steel to Jensen, from Jensen to Rootes, etc., etc. The BON has some of this, but I'd like to see more. Maybe that info is unknown. Or it's out there but I haven't stumbled across it yet.

 

[Warren]

Good stuff always looked at the JAL/SAL holes with wonder as to their indentation. Certainly will start looking at my Austin Healey club buddies cars closer. Sure they have the numbers but they are an active club here in So.Cal.
They are equal opportunity although I got a tongue in cheek . " They fouled up a perfectly good car with a Ford motor." From one of them. I'll also look at the Volvo 1800 with the same thing in mind.

 

[65beam]

Jensen mocked up the pressing for the trans tunnel, bulkhead and top hats and then sent it out as a sublet. (to Doubty Boulton Paul) I have a fair amount of experience with Jensen procedures as I have made my living restoring Austin Healeys for the last 40 plus years.. if you look at the BMC ledgers you see that they were all made out of numerical order as well. On the body number tags on the big Healey there is a batch code (of 10-20 cars) and then the body number. early Healey has body tags started with "JM" for Jensen Motors. It's not a stretch to assume that "JAL" is Jensen assembly line, and "SAL" is Sunbeam assembly line.

I am guessing that the ROTA number was an internal ordering code used by Rootes to get shells identified before they were delivered to Jensen. If you look at the JAL tag, these were applied prior to painting the main shell. There is no color under them. This would indicate that these were probably screwed to the body by pressed steel.. who supplied them, Rootes or Jensen, Is unknown. Incidentally, an identical shaped tag was screwed to Austin Healey Bugeye Sprites which were also made by pressed steel.

Looking at the chassis tag you can see that there are three different fonts. Probably because they were supplied by Rootes partially filled out and then finished by Jensen when the car was fully assembled.

The fonts for the engine number and part of the chassis number match the fonts that Jensen used for the Austin Healey (100/4, 100/6 and 3000)

There's a big difference between the Alpine VIN plate and the VIN plate of a Tiger. The series 4 and series 5 Alpine plate was reverse stamped versus the Tiger VIN plates looking to be hand stamped using individual dies. Were the Tiger plates stamped by Jenson after the conversion was done?

 

[Austin Healer]

Agreed, they are substantially different. although there were a couple of reverse stamped Tigers. Norm Miller has examples on his web site. Yes, Jensen finished off partially filled in chassis plates supplied by Rootes.. The Tiger vin plates were partially stamped by Rootes. Jensen filled in one to three of the last number in the chassis number on my Mk2 it's the last three. you can also see that the start of the chassis number (in my case B3821oo) are gang stamped and all in line and spaced the same. The next and last number of the last three digits are hand stamped with irregular spacing and are not in line with the others. So on my tag B382100463LRXFE... Jensen stamped the "4" and the final "3" Jensen also stamped the engine numbers and the color code.

The fonts are a mixture of serif, sans serif and then the odd sized zeros. The difference in the serif vs. sans serif is in the "1, 3, 5, 6, 8 and 9.

The Rootes 1 has no foot, the Jensen one does. The Rootes "3" has a flat top and the Jensen is round at the top. 3, 6 and 9 have dot ends on their lower tails. Rootes "8" has a smaller circle at the top, Jensen #8 has equal sized circles.

The Jensen stamps are the same as the ones they used to make the body number tags for the big Healey

 

[Austin Healer]

BTW, Dowty Boulton Paul supplied all of the press tools to make the Big Healey panels to Jensen as well.

 

[Austin Healer]

Some of the items that I have noticed show that Tiger shells were pre-destined to be Tigers. Jensen didn't remove the battery box on Alpines. Pressed steel made the shell w/o one. The same with the spare tire fixture/mount on series 4/5 Alpines. The Tiger shells were built w/o one. The Tiger shells were also built w/o the starter handle tube starting from B9479975PPLRXFE (the 1st prototype Mk1A) and from all subsequent B382 cars. The Tiger shells were also supplied to Jensen w/o the Alpine inner fender stiffeners. Commonly called "top hats". On Mk2 Tiger shells the changes included substituting the pressing for the rear shelf to the pressing from a Hillman Husky... No battery box and no hole for one. This is why it is virtually impossible to build a convincing Tiger from an Alpine shell.

The Rota system for the Tiger was developed to tell Pressed Steel what to build and supply to Jensen