windshield seal issue

[Austin Healer]

I recently installed a new w/s, windshield to frame seal and frame to body seal... The currently supplied body to frame seal is much "harder" rubber than the previous seal and I found it impossible to make fit properly. I dug out an older. but still new seal, and while it wasn't curved like the current offering it was much easier to install. The real problem I now have is with the w/s to frame seal. It is also a much harder rubber than the previous seal and is also thicker. If I install the mirror and visor mount, the rubber buffer on the mirror stem is 3/16" away from the glass. If I take the visor mount out, the rubber buffer touches the glass as designed. This doesn't make much sense as the visor mount is considerably thinner than 3/16". Everything fit correctly with the old seal, unfortunately it was damaged and couldn't be reused. All of the stainless is installed and fits like it should.

I have thought of a number of possible fixes including a shim under the rubber buffer, milling the visor bracket at an angle on the back side, or modifying the mirror base. I was wondering if anyone else (besides mr55's!!) has had a similar problem, and what their solution was.

 

[0neoffive]

I recently installed a new w/s, windshield to frame seal and frame to body seal... The currently supplied body to frame seal is much "harder" rubber than the previous seal and I found it impossible to make fit properly. I dug out an older. but still new seal, and while it wasn't curved like the current offering it was much easier to install. The real problem I now have is with the w/s to frame seal. It is also a much harder rubber than the previous seal and is also thicker. If I install the mirror and visor mount, the rubber buffer on the mirror stem is 3/16" away from the glass. If I take the visor mount out, the rubber buffer touches the glass as designed. This doesn't make much sense as the visor mount is considerably thinner than 3/16". Everything fit correctly with the old seal, unfortunately it was damaged and couldn't be reused. All of the stainless is installed and fits like it should.

I have thought of a number of possible fixes including a shim under the rubber buffer, milling the visor bracket at an angle on the back side, or modifying the mirror base. I was wondering if anyone else (besides mr55's!!) has had a similar problem, and what their solution was.

I have one coming up in schedule with an SS seal. Did not notice any problems with the last few. Now I'm curious? We did have an awful time with a rear hardtop glass install last year that forced our glass guy to surrender.

 

[pfreen]

I recently installed the windshield and frame to the car using SS rubber. I had no problems. I had purchased the CAT seal but after a post in this forum alerting me to a problem with the CAT windshield gasket. I compared it to what I had removed and it was much larger, and not wanting problems, I ordered the SS gasket. As I said, no problems.
I do not have sun visors, but the 1a mirror mount rubber works as it should.

 

[Austin Healer]

I recently installed the windshield and frame to the car using SS rubber. I had no problems. I had purchased the CAT seal but after a post in this forum alerting me to a problem with the CAT windshield gasket. I compared it to what I had removed and it was much larger, and not wanting problems, I ordered the SS gasket. As I said, no problems.
I do not have sun visors, but the 1a mirror mount rubber works as it should.

If I remove the visor mount, the rubber buffer fits up tight to the glass as it should. This is the second MK2 I've had this issue with.. Thinking it might be the frame, I switched to a spare w/s frame I had, the problem is identical with both frames. The w/s to frame gasket is much thicker from the glass channel towards the groove for the w/s frame (pinchweld) which is where I think the problem lies.

The other thought I had was it might possibly be the w/s itself. I originally had one of the w/s sold by Victoria British ages ago. The new w/s that I bought from Sunbeam Specialties is slightly thicker....

 

[65beam]

If I remove the visor mount, the rubber buffer fits up tight to the glass as it should. This is the second MK2 I've had this issue with.. Thinking it might be the frame, I switched to a spare w/s frame I had, the problem is identical with both frames. The w/s to frame gasket is much thicker from the glass channel towards the groove for the w/s frame (pinchweld) which is where I think the problem lies.

The other thought I had was it might possibly be the w/s itself. I originally had one of the w/s sold by Victoria British ages ago. The new w/s that I bought from Sunbeam Specialties is slightly thicker....

The parts book lists one mirror for Alpines starting with the series 5 and this mirror was also used on MK 1 and MK 2 Tigers. That is the oval mirror with part # 2237684 which superceded # 2235188 starting with B9474200. The parts book lists one interior mirror buffer. Any time you space the mirror out by using a shim or in this case the center visor mount you'll find a gap simply because you installed a spacer. Sun visors were an option, not standard equipment so that may be the reason Rootes didn't make a second buffer for use with visors mirror buffer.

 

[Austin Healer]

Bob,

The reason for the post WAS the buffer fit before I changed the glass and the seal......

 

[65beam]

Bob,

The reason for the post WAS the buffer fit before I changed the glass and the seal......

I would put everything back to the way it was before and use the old pieces that allowed everything to fit correctly.

 

[Austin Healer]

I would put everything back to the way it was before and use the old pieces that allowed everything to fit correctly.

Well... If you bothered to read the post... you would know that the original w/s to frame seal was damaged and could NOT be re-used... I replaced the w/s because it had a bullseye dead center... I tried to buy one of the Victoria British w/s that Moss has (77 of them at last count) but they still will not part with them...

For crying out loud..........

 

[65beam]

I did read it and I understand what a problem we have trying to buy correctly made parts. It's been that way for years so we have to use what is available and adapt. Can we trust off shore suppliers to make on spec parts? Your problem seems to answer that question. Don't throw away any old part that did fit right. There was a time that windshield seals were sold as a strip that you cut to fit. Then you glued the ends together and hope the trim could be installed. There weren't any moulded to shape seals being made. Use a gasket hole stamp and stamp out a piece of rubber of the thickness needed as well as the correct diameter and super glue it to the buffer in order to fill the gap. Some modification required. Due to the number of Alpine and Tigers produced, current cost of production and return on investment we probably won't have a consistent supply of Sunbeam parts made to the quality of items sold by Moss and others for marques that had much higher production numbers. The way things stand now it looks like Classic will be the sole surviving Sunbeam parts supplier in the states. I talked to Moss last week about buying a few windshields and got the same response you did. They did say that some parts that match their cataloged parts have been integrated into inventory but no one knows when or if Sunbeam specific parts from VB will be put in inventory. Think of the cost involved to do that as well as possible damage to their reputation by selling parts not up to their quality. I have in my stock one each of the three different windshields for my Sunbeams. The one for late Alpines and Tigers that I bought a few years back from VB has a small delamination starting on an upper corner even though it's never been off the shelf since I bought it. Pilkington stopped making them because of demand. Someone like you that wants correctness when doing a restoration has to get frustrated with what's available for Sunbeams.

 

[0neoffive]

Here is a new SS seal in an on-going project that the profile does not cover the stainless trim. The dried out and cracked old one still covered it fine?

 

[Austin Healer]

Here is a new SS seal in an on-going project that the profile does not cover the stainless trim. The dried out and cracked old one still covered it fine? View attachment 17784

what holds the stainless strip in place, glue??

 

[0neoffive]

what holds the stainless strip in place, glue??

The only thing I can do is reshape the stainless so the ”tuck” flange sits flat and blend in black 2-part seam sealant which is also a rugged adhesive.

 

[lee]

I have an appointment next month with a shop that does glass work on antique vehicles. he quoted me 4 to 5 hrs. I thought that was a little long but after reading all your stories it may not be. I got the rubber from Sunbeam Specialties. 2 pieces correct?

 

[IvaTiger]

I have an appointment next month with a shop that does glass work on antique vehicles. he quoted me 4 to 5 hrs. I thought that was a little long but after reading all your stories it may not be. I got the rubber from Sunbeam Specialties. 2 pieces correct?

There is one for the body to frame and one for the frame to glass

 

[Austin Healer]

I have an appointment next month with a shop that does glass work on antique vehicles. he quoted me 4 to 5 hrs. I thought that was a little long but after reading all your stories it may not be. I got the rubber from Sunbeam Specialties. 2 pieces correct?

That's a bit steep. took me 45 minutes top to install the glass in the frame... another hour the get all the stainless trim installed

 

[Austin Healer]

I have an appointment next month with a shop that does glass work on antique vehicles. he quoted me 4 to 5 hrs. I thought that was a little long but after reading all your stories it may not be. I got the rubber from Sunbeam Specialties. 2 pieces correct?

Unless the rubber between the frame and dash are damaged, I wouldn't pull the w/s frame off of the car. It is pretty easy to remove the glass and install the new w/s with the frame in place. There can be risks in removing the w/s assembly and replacing the frame to body seal. The new seals are very stiff and it can be very difficult to make it fit correctly. the other risk is in changing the alignment between the door qtr window and the w/s frame. this would require taking the w/s completely off and fitting the adjusters that Sunbeam Specialties sells.

Taking the w/s off of the car also requires removal or dropping the dashboard as the nut on the right side is blocked by the glove box insert. If the car is a MK1a or MKk2 you would also need to disconnect the connections to the fresh air boxes, obviously adds quite a bit of time to the entire process!

 

[Jbetz812]

Thanks for the tips, ordered a new window to frame seal just now from Rick.