B9471929 and B9471705

Bob Knight

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
207
Due to Warren's request I'll post some info about my cars here... it's my first time so forgive any excess blathering and hopefully I'm smart enough to figure out how to post pictures because I don't have a 10 year old to help me.

A brief background, I came from a family of car nuts, my grandfather was a Packard and DeSoto enthusiast, and my Dad was a Cadillac aficionado. I had several cars before I turned 16, and drove myself to the DMV to get my license on my 16th birthday in a 64 1/2 D-code Mustang I'd freshly renovated. I'd put all the 289 Shelby parts on the Mustang motor (this was in the late 70's when it wasn't that hard to find original Shelby mechanical parts off of wrecked Shelbys, and before any repro parts had ever been made) and thought I had a REALLY HOT car.

Then one Sunday I was at a barbeque at my Godparent's house, and they said - "hey, you need to meet our neighbor, Lou. He's a race car driver and has won the SCCA national championship in his class several times. Lou, why don't you give Bob a ride around the block in your Tiger?" That was, of course, how I met Lou Anderson, and after one ride in his Tiger that afternoon, I HAD to get myself a Tiger. The Mustang all of a sudden was "not that fast".

So, of course, being 16, I talked myself blue in the face to anyone who would listen and most who'd probably rather not about my desire to get a Sunbeam Tiger. Within a few weeks a friend of my father's called to say he knew a neighbor in Escondido that had a Tiger in his garage he'd probably sell. I went to visit the friend, he was the original owner, according to him he bought it "at Shelby's dealership in Long Beach", and it had the 260 Cobra engine parts, balanced, solid lifter cam, 4 barrel, and about every performance option that was available for a Tiger, limited slip differential, 3.54 rear end gears, headers, traction bars. Must have been a dealership joyride/demo car or something. He'd bought the car for his daughter to use when she was in college, she never really liked the car, and once she'd graduated and gotten married, the car had mostly sat in the garage. Had 32,000 miles on it - this was in 1980. He said he wanted $3,500 for the car, and since Lou had told me to expect to pay 6 to 8 grand for a nice one at the time, I snapped it up.

From what I can recall and the tidbits I've been able to glean from Norm, I believe this Tiger was B9470715. (if you own this car send me a PM and I can probably clear up a lot of mysteries) I drove the Tiger as a daily driver for a number of years. About 1985 I had Jack Tietjen build a 5 bolt 289 out of a wrecked 289 Cobra, which wound up with 398 HP at the flywheel on the dyno - I know that sounds commonplace these days, but it was quite an acheivement in 1985. Of course, it had 12.5:1 compression and you could still get, and I had to use, 100 octane gas at Union 76. With that engine the Tiger would run low 14's in the quarter mile at Carlsbad with closed exhaust and street tires, and once broke into the high 13's with Lou Anderson driving. Again, doesn't sound very impressive now, but it was SMOKIN' in the 80's.

Then one day I stupidly let a friend drive it, he speed shifted from 2nd to 3rd at about 80 MPH, the back end broke loose and he wasn't used to such a short car, and wound up driving it through a telephone pole and a parked Toyota pickup. To show how tough a Tiger is, the Tiger didn't have any damage rear of the windshield (other than the place where I put my hand through the dash board), and it broke the Toyota pickup completely in half, as well as snapping off the telephone pole!
So, I found an Alpine that was wrecked in the back, cut it in half and took the front to Andy Heaton's shop, and a few months and several thousand dollars later Andy had it looking like nothing had ever happened to it. Andy and I spent a week putting the mechanicals and interior back together, and then the next day I got in it and drove it to Nashville, TN, where I was attending college at the time. I don't remember being crazy but I must have been.
My last year in college I completely ran out of money, and since the Tiger was the only valuable asset I possesed at the time, I had to sell it to complete college. I started kicking myself in the ass the next day and haven't stopped yet.
Bob Knight
B9471705
B9471929
 
On to the preset Tigers

Soon after having sold my original Tiger, already having serious regrets, I found a basket case MKIA in Ramona. The car had no motor or trans, had a Ford 9" rear end, and showed signs of having been raced and beat to death. But, it was a Tiger, and it only cost $1,500, so I bought it. I had plans to restore that car, and accumulated a pile of parts, motor, transmission, differential, ect... , but due to work pressures never found the time to complete it. I had it at Andy's several times, but it always seemed when he had the time to work on it, I didn't have any spare money, and when I had money, he didn't have the time. That car eventually burned up in the 2007 Witch Creek fire, I heard that someone had bought the carcass from an insurance auction and was going to try to restore it. Man, it got so hot the steel was so soft you could bend the fenders just by pulling on them with your bare hands - if it'd been restorable, I would have restored it. Good luck to whoever you are, anyway! Maybe you know of some whole body re-tempering process I'm unaware of.

While I had that car, I'd bought another MKIA that was also a just a body, but in much better shape. After Lou Anderson sold his Tiger in 2007, he gave me his complete, very considerable Tiger parts stash, so I had a pretty complete set of parts for that car. A acquantance was looking for a Tiger project for a client, and talked me into selling it, which I did about two weeks before the Witch Creek Fire roared through and burned up everything on my place. Great timing on that one! It was sold to another local enthusiast and has been beautifully restored.

SO, after the 2007 fire, I had ZERO Tigers, and once I'd settled with the insurance (Hagerty was great, I heartily recommend them to vintage car owners, wish I could say the same for the "regular" insurance...) I started to look for another Tiger. By this time I'd decided that I really prefered the early cars with the round corners and no body seams, and I really wanted one JUST LIKE my first Tiger. I tried to locate my original Tiger to see if purchasing it was an option, but at the time (due to the fire burning all my records) I couldn't figure out which Tiger it was.

So, I got on eBay, and looked at several local Tigers, and all were either way over my budget, or not an early car like I was looking for. Eventually B9471929 popped up on eBay, it looked reasonably close to what I wanted to start with, and was within my budget, and was presented as a complete, original, running, driving, registered, streetworth Tiger with a documented history. I bid on it, with a maximum bid of $15,000 - and didn't get it, the high bidder was about $18,000. About 30 minutes after bidding ended, the seller contacted me with a message that "the high bidder was a fraudulent bidder, I was the highest real bidder, and I could have the car for the high bid of $18,000". This should have set off alarm bells, and I should have run away immediately, but being Tiger crazy, I said "if I was the highest real bidder, and my top bid was $15,000, shouldn't I get it for $15,000?". Seller agreed to that, and I made arrangements to pick up the car that weekend in northern California.
Once I arrived at the storage where the Tiger was (after a 12 hour drive), the owner called to say he'd be late - which turned out to be FOUR HOURS late... another opportunity to run away I missed. Anyway, when he finally showed up and opened the storage unit, the pictures that had been posted on eBay had obviously been taken YEARS before, the car was in no way street worthy and in fact was barely driveable even to move it on the trailer. I'd actually, based on the sellers description, considered FLYING to pick it up and driving it home... Thank God a tiny bit of sanity had remained in my brain and I took the trailer!
This might be an appropriate spot for a cautionary message for anyone thinking of buying a Tiger on eBay. DO NOT BID ON A TIGER ON eBAY UNTIL YOU LOOK AT IT PERSONALLY OR HAVE SOMEONE YOU TRUST LOOK AT IT PERSONALLY. The way eBay is set up, it's pretty easy for someone, who maybe isn't quite completely honest, or maybe honestly just doesn't know enough to be able to tell the difference, to list a car making it look maybe better than it really is, which might lead a bidder to pay more than they would if they really knew the actual condition, and once having made that bid, if the buyer is person of their word, and the seller maybe not quite as honest, once the buyer makes a bid, it's pretty easy for that seller to make the buyer feel like they have to buy that car, that they'd rather not buy, for a price they'd rather not pay.
Bob Knight
B9471705
B9471929
 
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And the happy ending

After getting B9471929 home and looking it over for quite some time... I just couldn't get enthused about restoring it. It had too many things I didn't like about it - been hit on all four corners, quite a bit of bondo in several places, had a poorly installed partial Series V rear clip, and the square trunk REALLY bugged me. On the plus side, the motor, a 302, appeared to have been professionally built and really ran good once it was tuned up... but it has an oil pressure problem I've never been able to solve, (and is detailed somewhere in the Forum posts if you care). I decided I REALLY wanted to build a Tiger EXACTLY like I wanted in every respect - and this wasn't the car to start with.

So, having learned an expensive lesson about buying a Tiger on eBay, I started looking again, this time with a much better idea of what I wanted. After several months, another Tiger popped up on eBay, this one a completely straight, rust free rolling chassis that seemed to come with most of the parts to put it together, plus had a fresh coat of paint, and it was even the right color, #86 Forest Green. I was much more reticent about bidding this time, the car was in New York State, and I didn't have time to go look at it, so I just watched, and the bidding topped out at about $12,000 without meeting reserve.

But I was still interested, so I contacted the seller. After talking to him on the phone for a while, I got the feeling he was a pretty serious, honest seller, who knew exactly what he had and what it was worth. So I called an organbuilder colleague in New York and asked him to go take a look at it. He said "but I don't know anything about Tigers" - I said "just go look at it and tell me if it looks like a pile of junk or something decent". He went over, and his report was very favorable - "looks like a brand new body, no sign of ever having been wrecked, no repairs visible, no dents, no bondo, and, most importantly, no rust, seller's owned the car since 1967 and it's been in storage in his garage since the engine blew up in 1972, still has the 1967 title and 1972 registration, started restoration several years ago but now needs the money so selling." So, I called the seller back, and he said, "bottom line, I want $14,000 for it or I won't sell it". I decided "what the heck" and told him I'd send him a cashier's check for it. He then mentioned that his brother who lived in Lake Havasu was there visiting, and he'd be willing to bring the car out west when he went home if I'd pay for the gas. I gladly agreed, thinking I'd have to go to Lake Havasu to pick it up - and his brother was such a nice guy he brought it all the way to Ramona and dropped it off in my driveway!

This was the exact opposite of my earlier experience, everything was exactly as the seller had said, or better, and it came with a lot more parts than what had been mentioned in the ad. In fact, he'd obviously been buying and stockpiling parts over the years with a restoration in mind, as there were two and three of lots of things the car only needs one of.

By this time, I'd decided I really wanted a KILLER engine, and started looking at the stroker motors available. At first I thought the 347 would be the ticket, but my brother, who builds Baja race trucks with small block Fords said "you really don't want a 347, the rod ratio's in the toilet, go with a 331". Then I thought I'd build a 331 on a 5 bolt 289 block to keep as original an appearance as possible, and my brother said "you really don't want to build a stroker on a 5 bolt block, the castings are really thin, for a stroker you need a Mexican 302 block". Just about that time, when I was pricing parts, Maliburevue Gary posted a 331 EXACTLY like I was planning to build in the "Parts for Sale" section - at a price that was less than the total I'd come up with for the parts. As luck would have it, I was working on the organ at Loyola Marymount which turned out to be about a MILE from Gary's house, so I put a pile of cash in my pocket and went over and picked me up a motor.

Then I decided to rebuild the front end, but wanted to install better brakes. Tiger brakes have always seemed kind of marginal to me for something with that much horsepower. Also, I ALWAYS liked the rims off the 1968 Shelby GT500KR, and always wanted to put a set on a Tiger - but they're the Ford 5 lug pattern, and adaptors would make them stick out a ridiculous amount... but if I was going to change the brakes, why not change the bolt pattern as well - then I can have my Tiger EXACTLY like I want it. I went to Ecology and bought a Ford 15 x 7 rim and put a used 205/50/15 tire on it, which I'd decided was the size I wanted to use. I drilled the old Ford steel rim out for the Tiger 4 bolt pattern and put it on the front and rear of B9471929 to test for size and fit - decided it would be perfect, although I really should make the front track about an inch less so the tires wouldn't stick out so far. I ordered a set of Shelby rims from Branda (they happened to be on sale in sets) and a set of tires from Tire Rack.

In looking for brakes and 5 bolt pattern hubs, I wound up talking to Dale, and he said "what you really need is my front end, then it'd be no problem, and I can loose an inch in the front track easy". He directed me to his website, I agreed with him, and a few weeks later I picked up a new front end with 5 bolt hubs to fit my Shelby rims. I also wound up ordering Dale's rear disk brake kit, road race oil pan... thinking about the rear springs and one of Dale's hoods. If you're prone to impulse purchases of neat Tiger parts, DO NOT go anywhere near Dale's shop!
Bob Knight
B9471705
B9471929
 
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Bob, not only was this a great read, it provides a history that would have been unknown on two of the tigers. Many communities are beginning to interview people that have had a historical impact before they pass on to a better place.

This live history of the cars allows future owners some history that would never be know about the cars they are considering buying or they own. Love the concept and Norm can add this to his tracking of the cars too. Great idea! Lee
 
Bob, that is just a great, enjoyable post to read. Car looks fantastic. I hope it gives you many miles and years of enjoyment. Thanks for sharing.:)

Gene
 
Great Story

All collector cars have a story and this one is better than most. Sorry to hear about your bumps in the road, particularly the telephone pole and the fire, but it does liven the conversation. After 41 years and two Tigers I have a few tales to tell as well, but that's what makes our hobby interesting. Hope you are enjoying your "new" car.
 
The story is

What makes em special. Some call it provenance others call it matching numbers. Great story I had heard bits n pieces in person at Tigers United. It's great that we can share stories that we would ordinarily tell over a frosty adult beverage if we could but this is the next best thing.
 
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