Seat Belts

[michael-king]

I did a search on the item number and got a "not found" for the old listing"

It would be good to post some photos of the belts. Or a screen shot of the auction so we can see what the belts look like

Also are you sure the belts are correct for an alpine/ tiger.

The majority of NOS Rootes belts I've seen are for the later Chrysler cars post 67. Usually a black buckle with a Chrysler pentstar and Rootes written under

Rootes mostly offered the Irvin parachute company belts in 2 colours a light grey or rarer black.
They had 3 variations on buckle logos.

They came in 2 and 3 point and the Alpine/Tiger specific ones had a plastic sleeve on the shorter one that goes next to the centre console to help it from scrunching under the seat.

 

[HolyCat]

I did a search on the item number and got a "not found" for the old listing"

Rootes mostly offered the Irvin parachute company belts in 2 colours a light grey or rarer black.
They had 3 variations on buckle logos.

They came in 2 and 3 point and the Alpine/Tiger specific ones had a plastic sleeve on the shorter one that goes next to the centre console to help it from scrunching under the seat.

Michael,

Is it possible that seat belts varied depending on the country? Seat belt requirements (specifications) in the US might have been different than those in the UK or Europe. I looked for seat belts in the Alpine parts manual Section YX, but was not able to find them. But I could easily have missed them. Have you seen them listed in Alpine parts manual?

When I bought my Tiger in 1970 (first sold in 1967), I do not recall there being any plastic sleeve on the shorter belt next to the console. I wonder if the seat belts for the cars sold in the US had belts different from those cars sold in other countries.

By the way, I hope anyone who purchases 50+ year old seat belts use them only for static display. After all that time, the webbing material or stitching thread might be breaking down and not have the original strength. Seat belts save lives!

Thanks!
David

 

[michael-king]

Michael,

Is it possible that seat belts varied depending on the country? Seat belt requirements (specifications) in the US might have been different than those in the UK or Europe. I looked for seat belts in the Alpine parts manual Section YX, but was not able to find them. But I could easily have missed them. Have you seen them listed in Alpine parts manual?

When I bought my Tiger in 1970 (first sold in 1967), I do not recall there being any plastic sleeve on the shorter belt next to the console. I wonder if the seat belts for the cars sold in the US had belts different from those cars sold in other countries.

By the way, I hope anyone who purchases 50+ year old seat belts use them only for static display. After all that time, the webbing material or stitching thread might be breaking down and not have the original strength. Seat belts save lives!

Thanks!
David

Hey David,

The belts are in the special accessories brochures, I can't recall if they were in the parts book.

Re country to country... I know the Irvin (irving) ones were the ones in the various home markets. I have seen them period USA fitted to a few cars. Also of note there are many types of Irvin belts... The ones supplied from Factory by Rootes ( ordered with a car order rather than a car bought off the showroom) actually often have the "Rootes" logos and text on the belts sewn patches.

I have no doubt that local delaers would have offered cars with locally sourced equipment.

There is are 2 Rootes USA special accessories brochures I've seen that have variations..one showed the Irvin belts, they both showed USA sourced side mirrors as well as the usual factory option Talbot Berlin as well.

I seem to recall seeing some later USA Rootes brochure that had the later style Rootes Chrysler branded Kangol belts.

I'll see if I can dig up some of the info.. I did research this for an article in the local club newsletter in the early ,2000s..... Time flys 😲

 

[65sunbeam]

Was this the set for 495 GBP?!
Thought these came out around 1968 with the Alpine GT's?

 

[michael-king]

Sorry It would appear that the lisitng has been taken down with my purchase . However I have contacted the seller and asked him to list the second set on Ebay.
They are UK NOS 3 point seat belts with a push button catch with ROOTES and the Pentastar on the push button and are mint unissued

They would be the Kangol or Britax belts I mentioned earlier. They were post the tiger production.

Likely they look like the ones Eric has posted. If they cost as much as what Eric says they are listed at. You probably could have got a pair of the correct Irvin belts.

 

[65beam]

Was this the set for 495 GBP?!
Thought these came out around 1968 with the Alpine GT's?

View attachment 17420

Yep, Those are the standard three point belts for the fastbacks. The shoulder section hooks on the inside panel of the car under the rear seat window. They are secured by a large shoulder bolt at all three points. Both inside belt sections have a plastic sleeve to prevent it falling under the seat.

 

[mr55s]

These came on my Mkll, who else has these? They are a course weave. I guess it was what the dealer had on hand in your area

 

[Agent 861]

They were the 495 quid belts . The belts are identical to those that came with my 1967 Series V Alpine. Although I took them out as I was concerned regarding safety as they had been well used by the time the car ended up with me . If they are 68 Fastback belts then I suspect the late RHD alpines used the same belts. The other option is that the original owner replaced the belts early on in the life of the car - which seems unlikely. Although I can remember seat belts becoming mandatory in the early 70’s in New Zealand so perhaps they were installed then .

 

[michael-king]

They were the 495 quid belts . The belts are identical to those that came with my 1967 Series V Alpine. Although I took them out as I was concerned regarding safety as they had been well used by the time the car ended up with me . If they are 68 Fastback belts then I suspect the late RHD alpines used the same belts. The other option is that the original owner replaced the belts early on in the life of the car - which seems unlikely. Although I can remember seat belts becoming mandatory in the early 70’s in New Zealand so perhaps they were installed then .

It is more likely that the belts you have were fitted later after purchase than with the car by an owner who wanted some safety... I don't think the original owner replaced the belts early in the cars life.. it's more likely they added them to a car with no belts.

The alpines and tigers were never fitted with belts as standard and countries didn't require them as standard during their production... So by the time the very late Alpines which your series V appears to be due to the headlight rims.. ( what are the rear plate lights, what vin is the SV?) Maybe the belts you have might have been available but Tiger production was well and trully finished and they certainly were not available during MkI production.

The Irvin belts have a way more fiddly buckle than later style belts with lift buckles or push and click of later styles and seat belts were a quote rarely specified option.

If you went to a Rootes dealer in the early 70s and asked for belts for your Alpine/ Tiger they are likely to have fitted what they had in stock be that aftermarket or current Rootes stock.

They are Rootes belts, but post the alpine/ tiger period.

The grey belts are most common of the Irvin. The early buckles till about 64 have the nice seperate colour Irvin logo that as a note had a larger one to indicate left and right.

Late they swicth to the sticker to cut cost I assume and add the specific mfg cheaply rather than embodied labels on the belts.

 

[65beam]

The judging guide lines state that you'll lose 1 point for after market 3 point seat belts but not lose points with the use of Rootes 3 point accessory belts secured to factory mounting points.. Four point belts will mean you lose 3 points. There's no mention of the lap belts. I use the chrome buckle belts from Moss and haven't lost points for having them.

 

[IvaTiger]

The judging guide lines state that you'll lose 1 point for after market 3 point seat belts but not lose points with the use of Rootes 3 point accessory belts secured to factory mounting points.. Four point belts will mean you lose 3 points. There's no mention of the lap belts. I use the chrome buckle belts from Moss and haven't lost points for having them.

Best to risk loosing one’s life by not having seat belts than loosing a point or two for them not being correct I guess 😮

 

[o2bdriving]

In my early mkii.

 

[Austin Healer]

In my early mkii.

View attachment 17454

View attachment 17455

Those are manufactured by Beams... Britax or Kangol belts were pretty common for 3 point belts and more commonly seen in UK cars. In any event, there's really no such thing as a factory seat belt. The cars were not supplied with seat belts fitted from the factory by Rootes. They DID supply them in their accessory catalog and you could buy them from the Dealer and have them fitted there. Kind of like external rear view mirrors... These were not fitted by the factory. You basically looked at the Rootes authorized accessory parts catalog, picked what you wanted and then pointed where you wanted them installed on the car...

 

[Agent 861]

Thanks this has all been very illuminating -Might not have brought them had I had this dicussion before but still will look better than the japanese isuue belts that are in it now and are at least period correct . Should any one be interested in a simaler set this is the sellers contact information - uk-steph@hotmail.com

 

[65beam]

Most Rootes dealers sold aftermarket items simply because they could make more profit. When these cars were new there were several import parts houses and warehouses in every major market. Dealers still do the same thing today by using Advance, O'Reilly's and AutoZone.

 

[o2bdriving]

Those are manufactured by Beams... Britax or Kangol belts were pretty common for 3 point belts and more commonly seen in UK cars. In any event, there's really no such thing as a factory seat belt. The cars were not supplied with seat belts fitted from the factory by Rootes. They DID supply them in their accessory catalog and you could buy them from the Dealer and have them fitted there. Kind of like external rear view mirrors... These were not fitted by the factory. You basically looked at the Rootes authorized accessory parts catalog, picked what you wanted and then pointed where you wanted them installed on the car...

Thanks for identifying them and the additional information, much appreciated.

 

[michael-king]

In my early mkii.

View attachment 17454

View attachment 17455

These are the same as the beams belts sold today.. the stickers would be an easy addition...I've not seen these with that sticker before.

 

[o2bdriving]

These are the same as the beams belts sold today.. the stickers would be an easy addition...I've not seen these with that sticker before.

I suspect that the stickers are the NLA in the Sunbeam Specialties catalog. UK87

 

[HolyCat]

A thread in the Parts for Sale got off the original topic – there was another set of seat belts for sale on eBay. But there is a lot of information about seat belts used in Tigers and other Rootes vehicles in subsequent posts. Since one of the main benefits of our C.A.T. Forum is the information contained in it for future readers, we want to make this good information about seat belts available where a future reader might look for it – in the Body forum in the Tiger Technical – Stock section. So most of the posts in that original thread have been moved here.

Feel free to drop me a private communication if you have any questions about this move. Thanks!
David

 

[Klaus and Cary]

Possibly silly question as it might be obvious if I was looking at the car, but how are the lap belts mounted? There are currently none in our car. Are there existing mounting points, or is modification needed. ie: drilling holes?