1964 Sunbeam Tiger Convertible

[joesailor]

I buy the cars to enjoy and drive and generally try not to lose more than normal carry costs. Never expected to drop 30%.
Not sure I agree about market trends - Hagerty notes that besides baby boomers very little market for these cars among other age groups.
Bottom line, I did not expect to have value drop into driver/unrestored territory. As far as the repro ID is concerned, there are probably at least 15 west coast cars
with these, I am aware of at least 1 Lord Rootes winer with one, I went back and looked at older bAT sales, some with questionable ID's and no comments.
This is similar with the situation regarding some restored high value C2 Corvettes - tags and block stampings were changed but blessed in the day by NCRS judges and now its all OK.

 

[michael-king]

I buy the cars to enjoy and drive and generally try not to lose more than normal carry costs. Never expected to drop 30%.
Not sure I agree about market trends - Hagerty notes that besides baby boomers very little market for these cars among other age groups.

I've been posting on this forum and others for a few years that the boom and speculation that drove Avery cars into 80k territory and lots of nice cars into 100k plus has been over for years....

Even nice mkii's are barely making it past 100k in the last 2 years.. other than a few outliers the cars are generally in the 35-50k bracket for good to nice cars... With very nice in the 60-80 brackets.... Above that it's those big signature event auctions tacked onto a big car show or racing event where people get hyped over a few days ... Drink and drop coin....

I'm sorry the experience wasn't good.. your car looked decent.. and would be a very different and fun alternative to driving an MGB... Essentially an alpine v tiger change in performance ....

As for your specific situation. I think the car was sold in the right ballpark at 50k.. dropping 15k into it at that point would likely not bring it up another 15k in resale ...
So if bought at over 60... And putting 15 more in...
You need to be at an 80k sale Tiger to get your return... An 80k MKI Tiger is going to be a very fine example these days... And as you say lots of nice restos under way .. so even a very good car will be up against other very good cars .. and the market pool of buyers is getting much smaller thanks to attrition

 

[joesailor]

I've been posting on this forum and others for a few years that the boom and speculation that drove Avery cars into 80k territory and lots of nice cars into 100k plus has been over for years....

Even nice mkii's are barely making it past 100k in the last 2 years.. other than a few outliers the cars are generally in the 35-50k bracket for good to nice cars... With very nice in the 60-80 brackets.... Above that it's those big signature event auctions tacked onto a big car show or racing event where people get hyped over a few days ... Drink and drop coin....

I'm sorry the experience wasn't good.. your car looked decent.. and would be a very different and fun alternative to driving an MGB... Essentially an alpine v tiger change in performance ....

As for your specific situation. I think the car was sold in the right ballpark at 50k.. dropping 15k into it at that point would likely not bring it up another 15k in resale ...
So if bought at over 60... And putting 15 more in...
You need to be at an 80k sale Tiger to get your return... An 80k MKI Tiger is going to be a very fine example these days... And as you say lots of nice restos under way .. so even a very good car will be up against other very good cars .. and the market pool of buyers is getting much smaller thanks to attrition

I bought the car for $65K with BAT fees added in. Prior owner had much more than than in the car with everthing that needed to be refurbished done. It certainly a #3 plus car on the Hagerty scale. I put in about $1200 in improvements like new tach and speedometer, voltmeter and turn signal switch. I did not expect any upside - would have been very happy at low to mid 50's. I should note there is no wholesale market right now and I verified that talking to 4 well know buyers of classic cars - just too many sitting at dealers unsold. Regarding Tiger vs MGB, yes on power, no on handling - steering and handling much better on MGB. Both cannot hold a candle to the Lotus Elan S2 I had - it matches the Tiger in speed and handling was fantastic.

 

[canbeam]

I don't think you can get a more stable market for a car than Tigers over the past 5 years. That is perfectly horizontal at an average of $68,000 USD. Those are only sold cars. You're not going to get rich holding onto it, but it zero depreciation is a lot better than you are getting on your Buick.... Just enjoy it and educate others on the car by showing up at shows, and the line won't dip.

 

[65beam]

I don't think you can get a more stable market for a car than Tigers over the past 5 years. That is perfectly horizontal at an average of $68,000 USD. Those are only sold cars. You're not going to get rich holding onto it, but it zero depreciation is a lot better than you are getting on your Buick.... Just enjoy it and educate others on the car by showing up at shows, and the line won't dip.

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If the person selling is a long time owner, has done a bare metal or partial restoration and kept up on things that needed fixed, there won't be a chance of recovering the money spent. We have a lot of money in the car we had at the United in Canada and It will probably be up for sale but Jean and I know we'll never sell it for what we have in it. The same applies to our other cars. Tigers do command a higher resale value than Alpines but the cost of an Alpine restoration can go higher than a Tiger due to the lower availability of Alpine drive train parts.

 

[michael-king]

. Tigers do command a higher resale value than Alpines but the cost of an Alpine restoration can go higher than a Tiger due to the lower availability of Alpine drive train parts.

That must be a stateside specific issue... Rootes engine, trans and rear end parts are quite cheap comparatively.
Stuff is not available as easily over the counter as ford stuff... But also it's not expensive either.

 

[mr55s]

We all purchased these cars because we like them. Get out and drive and enjoy them . You could draw these conclusions with any hobby you enjoy….golf, fishing, sports, woodworking artwork….cars etc. You do it because you liked it to begin with. It all costs money to play. At the end of the day if values go up or down, you still have something that pleases you.

 

[theo_s]

Hi all, I'm going to lock this thread, having removed the tail end of the discussion that was not relevant to the topic at hand. Please remember to be respectful to your fellow Tiger enthusiast even when they do not have the same priorities as you.