5 lug for rear?

[PITT40]

Has anyone made their car 5 lug? It will easy enough with rotors in front. But for the rear is there a 5 lug hub available that mounts to the factory axle or do you just get axles shortened from some else with a Dana 44? I plan to do rear discs so no need for a 5 lug backing plate and drum solution.

What would those axles be from, like a Jeep Cherokee?

 

[Forrest39]

I had plans of doing a 5-lug rear axle from a late 90's explorer. 8.8" is similar in strength to the traditional 9" but is much more available and comes in an array of ratios and already has disc brakes. Plus limited slip is very common. There are a number of shops that will cut it down to fit.

But as to your original question, I think Moser is where I would start for rear hub modification.

http://www.moserengineering.com

Hope this helps
-Kevin

 

[Bob Knight]

5 lug

I made my Tiger a 5 lug, so I could run the Shelby GT500KR rims. Plus the stock Tiger wheel studs looked awful skimpy to me for something with that much horsepower. Ditto brakes.
I used Dale's front suspension with the appropriate brakes and hubs (Dale was also able to lose an inch on each side in the track so the wheels don't stick out of the fenders), and in the back I used a set of un-drilled new hubs I got from Doug Jennings and had them drilled locally for the 5 x 4.5 pattern, with Dale's rear disc brake kit.

My "Plan B" for the back hubs would have been to turn down the stock hubs, press and dowel on a steel ring (and maybe braze as well), and drill that for the 5 bolt pattern.

My first attempt at the rear end was to buy a disc brake 8.8 Ford rear end out of a late model Explorer. I had that narrowed to the Tiger rear track and the spring perches and panhard rod mount installed, with a trac loc differential and 3.55 gears. I got it installed in the car, but the dimensions of the Explorer disc brake hardware is just too big for the Tiger. It quickly became obvious, that at normal ride height, if I hit a bump, some part of the brakes would be knocking on the inner fender or frame rail, and the springs were also in the way of the e-brake hardware. The calipers also rubbed on the inside of the Shelby rims. After a week or so of putzing and trying to re-clock the rear brakes, and grind away offending parts, I removed the 8.8 and put back in the Dana 44 (yet another trac-loc and 3.54 gears), with Doug's hubs, and Dale's rear disc brake kit. After talking to numerous people I decided that the Dana 44 is plenty strong enough for a Tiger, even one with a built stroker, mainly because of the Tiger's light weight - you'll get wheel spin before you'd break the differential. I'm not saying any Ford 8.8 won't work... but I'm pretty darn sure the Explorer isn't the one to start with. Fortunately I was able to have the 8.8 re-re configured to fit my 65 Mustang, where there's plenty of room for the brakes, so it wasn't a total loss.

After I did all that, I discovered that Dale sells Ford 9" rear ends in a custom housing, with disc brakes, that bolts right in a Tiger and he can put any bolt pattern you want on it. I would have gone that route instead of attempting the 8.8 if I'd have known about it first.

It's the Tiger law - every project gets put together and taken apart at least twice... some 5 or 6 times.

Bob K.
B9471705

 

[PITT40]

So what rear calipers does Dale's rear disc kit use? I was going to use Mustang GT rear calipers but they are really deep with the E brake section and I can see the issue of the inner fender well hitting them.

 

[Bob Knight]

rear discs

Dale's rear brake kit uses the Wilwood calipers, same as on the front. The eBrake is a separate, compact unit with it's own brake pads and mechanical mechanism. The Wilwood calipers are very compact, much smaller than any "factory" brakes I found out there. I had a real hard time getting something that would fit inside the Shelby GT500KR rims, even though they're 15" rims, the center section is very thick that makes the interior space more like the size of a 14" rim. I made my own mounting brackets for the front and rear calipers that put the disc and calipers much farther inboard than the standard kit, so they wouldn't scrape on the rims. Why didn't you just get different rims, you ask? Well, I'd wanted to put the Shelby GT500KR rims on a Tiger since the early '80's, and I wanted this Tiger to be EXACTLY how I wanted it in every detail, and you know how once you get started on a project, you're kind of reluctant to admit defeat, even when it becomes obvious some other route might be easier...
Bob K.
B9471705

 

[Warren]

d school Dale

Dang where are my glasses, Title Old School Dale.
I just got a car with a early Fiat X 19 rear brake conversion .
Seems to work a bunch better, my other Tiger has stock brakes .

 

[Bob Knight]

pic

This is a picture of what I did. I put the calipers on the front, instead of the back as Dale had them. That way I put the e-brake cables to the rear, and made a "Z" assembly to use the stock e-brake cable to the handle, and to convert the pull towards the center of the axle for both sides. With Dale's set up, there's two cables, one from each side, and you have to drill another hole in the floor. I avoided drilling any more holes in the car with all the work I did.
You can see in this photo I was in the midst of determining how much taller of a brake hat I needed to space the rotor back far enough so the calipers don't drag on the Shelby wheels. I made the steel mounts myself.
Bob K.
B9471705

 

[Bob Knight]

look at the pic

aaand.... you can't see the steel mount in the pic at all, it's behind the rotor..
Will look for a better picture. I took a ton of pictures of everything I did to the Tiger - they're in my laptop somewhere in the Windows Maze... what the heck did I save those as?
Bob K.

 

[Forrest39]

Bob,
Thanks for the report on your 8.8 experience! I thought I had the rear axle figured out but clearly I don't!
Cheers, -Kevin

 

[Bob Knight]

Law of unintended consequences

I've found that any time you change something on a Tiger... you later run into 5 or 6 or 10 problems you created, because you changed one thing to fix one "problem". Which in my case, was wanting 5 bolt hubs and better brakes - don't even get me started on the litany of problems I created when I swapped the motor mounts side for side to move the motor 5/8" to the front, so my big carb didn't hit the firewall...
After getting the Explorer 8.8 diff into the Tiger, and deciding that it really just wasn't going to work, I talked to a number of other Tiger owners, including those that race heavily and those who have motors with even more HP than mine, and decided there's really no reason to replace the Dana 44 - how often do they break, even under those conditions? Not very often. It's plenty good enough for a Tiger with any motor - hell, it's the same center section a 427 Cobra uses! If you need better brakes, just put on a disc brake kit. Any competent machine shop should be able to turn down a stock Tiger rear hub and press a larger flange on it with the 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern.
Hey, the 8.8 works GREAT in the 65 Mustang.
Bob Knight
B9471705

 

[PITT40]

Thanks Bob. I already decided to get a spare set of hubs and have a 5 x 4.5 flange fitted to it after reading your experiences.

I also think I have a solution for my rear brakes based on some research I have been doing. I will keep you all posted when I get around to digging into it.

 

[1fineAlpine]

8.8

I'm going to jump in here and add my thanks about the 8.8 rear as well. I too was going to have one cut down and fitted for my project, and I'm really glad I didn't. With that being said, what's a good donor vehicle for a dana 44?

-Kyle

 

[0neoffive]

DANA 44

I'm going to jump in here and add my thanks about the 8.8 rear as well. I too was going to have one cut down and fitted for my project, and I'm really glad I didn't. With that being said, what's a good donor vehicle for a dana 44?

-Kyle

Older Jeep or Bronco to name a couple. 56 T-Bird for another. Gotta chop em'.

 

[TigerBlue]

Weight

Thanks Bob (for unintended consequences)

Weight is the key here. Tigers are well under 3,000 pounds. 4 is as safe as 5 unless a car is participating/regularly doing drag race starts with over sized and very sticky tires. Dropping the clutch can be brutish on equipment with little reward unless you are drag racing competitively.

Street driving, autoX and track events like I participate in regularly are taken in stride with 4 lugs per wheel.

Rick

 

[tgrrr]

Street driving, autoX and track events like I participate in regularly are taken in stride with 4 lugs per wheel.

Rick

I can distinctly remember snapping off one of the stock Tiger's spindly 7/16" studs when changing tires many years ago.

Even the lowly Pinto had 1/2" studs.

Have had 5 lug 1/2" stud hubs for 20+ yrs now.

 

[Bob Knight]

Dana 44

On the Dana 44 source question, I found that the '90's Jeep Grand Cherokee's that have a V8 have Dana 44 rear ends with disc brakes, and the brakes look a little more compact than the Explorer 8.8 brakes were.
I also found that the 90's Lincoln Town Cars have an 8.8 with more compact brakes than the Explorer, and it looked like if you ran a Town Car passengers side caliper on both sides, you could adapt the e brake cables to the stock Tiger e brake cable set up. I didn't explore those options further as I'd already decided that the Stock Tiger diff with Dale's brake kit was the best option.
Bob K.
B9471705

 

[Forrest39]

FWIW, when I was doing all my homework on the 8.8, I came up with these sources of info.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/drivetrain/1308_ford_rear_axle/?__federated=1

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Explorer8_8.shtml

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_ford_8_8_rear_end/cutoff_wheel.html?__federated=1

looking at the pictures now, I can see why the explorer brakes are too big. There's gotta be an easy(easier) way to do this. My hope is that somebody can break the code on the 31-spline axles. My thought is that as dana 44 parts become more scarce there might be a cost effective and relatively simple to fit alternative.

Cheers, -Kevin

 

[the_tool_man]

If someone else has mentioned it, forgive me for repeating. But you can use an 8.8 out of a Mustang instead of an Explorer. In the context of going 5-lug, you can use a rear from a SN-95 GT, and get 10-in rear discs. A rear from an explorer uses larger 11.25-in discs, and is harder to fit. Cobra uses 11.65-in. The only downside to the GT/Cobra rear is that it uses the smaller 28-spline axles. But I personally know of, and have owned, 300+ HP Mustangs with stock axles and never had any issues.

If you're okay with 4-lug, you can use a rear from a '93 Mustang Cobra or an '87 Thunderbird Turbo-Coupe. They use the same bolt patter as a Tiger.

 

[Forrest39]

So perhaps the hot ticket would be a 31 spline explorer or mustang rear end with smaller mustang brakes?!?...

Shifting gears (no pun intended...) what about the c-clip issue? some say clips are fine while others say install the clip eliminators.

Cheers, -Kevin

 

[PITT40]

The problem with the Mustang rear discs is that the E brake setup goes very deep into the wheel well. See pic. The Sunbeams have that inner fender lip that hangs down low so when the car hits bump, that can hit the caliper.

I think I have an idea that may work with junkyard parts. I'm going to check out the Lincoln mentioned above as well.

What I need is the end axle flange dimensions where the drums bolt on to the Tiger Dana 44. Does anyone have a housing to go trace or measure for me? See last pic for what dimensions I need. Maybe it matches what is shown for a Dana in this pic, but an old timer told me no. I haven't picked up my car yet to measure anything.