High HP Tiger guys..............

[Duke Mk1a]

How are you getting the HP to the ground?
How are you controlling the rear axle with the high HP?

I am open to just about anything that will not permanently change the car.

You know I would be asking these questions after putting the 347 in the car.....

TIA!

 

[65beam]

high hp tiger

duke,
a long time tiger owner told me awhile back that anything over 250 horses was too much for a tiger that he auto crossed for years here in ohio. he said he could control it and launch without tire spin and all the other associated problems you mentioned.

 

[TigerBlue]

Torque Arm

Duke

Missed you at the Queen Mary. I know you wanted to be there.

TigerBlue is not a BIG HP stroker but puts over 300 Ft Lb of torque to the wheels from 3800 - 4800 and HP peak 284 at about 6200. (330HP? at the crankshaft)

I have Dan Walter's Torque Arm which works very well for me. It controls/limits the pinion rise under power. Not really made for drag racing but it eliminates the leaf spring windup when the pinion tries to climb the ring gear then snaps back... tires bite and repeat pinion rise. A Tiger in axel hop will leave dashed black rubber like the broken white lines on the highway. Even a stock 260 will do this if you drop the clutch.

Rick

 

[michael-king]

Duke,

Its my understanding the DW torque arm is about as good as it gets, stops the spring wind up and controls the rear better than other options. Its better than the tramp bars as it doesn't limit the srings under normal conditions.

In theory cal-track bars would be very good, but i cant see you getting the geometry needed on a road car as the pivot point for them would be to close to the ground for normal driving.

The tramp bars are not to bad, but dont use the weld-ons or you will just end up damaging the mounting points on the body, especially with the HP you are putting out.

You are unlikely to ever control the wheel spin, but you can deffinatly stop the tramp. The best testmony for the DW setup is on you-tube, watch tim (or jeff?) ronaks white tiiger at the 2008 TUXXXI auto X.. he had 381HP at the wheels and sits there doing NHRA burnouts without tramp.

 

[0neoffive]

Control, maybe ??

Any form of pinion snubber/torque bar/etc. is a plus. Moving the panhard to the MK II position also helps, but requires welding the X-tube re-mount. Although we did beef our little SBF's to spin more back in the mid 60's race crazy days, HP was never the issue in a Tiger. Trying to control the car on the track (or street) was always a headache. Frankly, I learned to "drift" a lot which used the car's handicap as an asset. Not a very socially accepted behavior, though . . . . . . . .

 

[Duke Mk1a]

Thanks guys.....

More info:

I have Dale's rear springs installed and have removed the panhard bar. I have also reinforced the front spring mounting points.

Does Dan still sell his torque Arm? I give him a call today @ 909 792 3568.

I would like to know the secrets on getting 245 tires to fit the rear.

 

[Duke Mk1a]

Just talked to Dale........will be going with a different approach.

 

[michael-king]

Duke,

What is Dale offering? Has he done an updqted versino of the torque arm? Has he managed to make a set of modified cal-tracs?.. a bolt in IRS?

 

[Duke Mk1a]

Duke,

What is Dale offering? Has he done an updqted versino of the torque arm? Has he managed to make a set of modified cal-tracs?.. a bolt in IRS?

A quad shock setup for the rear axle. He has it on his race car. We talked torque arm and I can not afford what he did with his black car and do not feel that the DW torque arm will be the correct fit for my application. I have no idea what his quad shock set up looks like. He will build the brackets for it in a month or so and let me know.

First thing is to get rid of the Monroe shocks that are on the rear of my car.

 

[michael-king]

Duke,

I have seen a quad shock setup before. I remember years ago on ebay there was a setup for sale, brackets konis and instrcutions. IIRC the quad setup that was for sale was developed by the SCCA tiger guys who still run in the GT2 category (tom pateon (sp?).

I have also seen an "anti-tramp" setup from koni, this has to shocks one per side mounted horizontally going forward from the spring chackles, IIRC owain lloyd has this on his tiger and had posted pics to the list at one point.

 

[Tiger tamer]

[QUOTEMoving the panhard to the MK II position also helps, but requires welding the X-tube re-mount.][/QUOTE]


We are rebuilding the rear chassis rails at the moment and have to rebuld the panhard rod mounts. Is there a pic anywhere that shows the MK11 mount position. If it is in a better postion, i may as well change it now.
Cheers Mal

 

[michael-king]

Mal,

IIRC the panhard rod on the MKII's got changed to the other side and was mounted a little lower and more parallel. Thats probably not much help, but hopefully someone can give you the dimensions and some pics.

That said, i have heard the MII's are just as likely to pull the bracket and crack it as the MKI's, so you should still re-enforce the area as per the instructions on the modtiger engineering site.

 

[Tiger tamer]

Thanks Michael.
I have the info from modtiger so that is what we are doing. I understand that it works best by being parallel, but what difference does moving it to the other side make ?. Is it torque loading ?

Mal

 

[michael-king]

Mal,

i have heard people mention that it was to do with the rotational direction of the torque... and am quite sure i have heard people say that the MKI location was correct for that so it's not the reason for the change. To be honest i dont know why it was changed. I would think regardless it was not the best design either way as it tends to do more damage than good.. so the strengthening mods are a must..

Hopefully someone will chime in with a better answer than mine. Have you got any pics of the progress on the rear rails? I'm sure the CAT board would be interested in a quick photo diary of the efforts you have undertaken with your car.

 

[0neoffive]

The learning curves

From miles and years of seat time, the opinion would be to all "yer just moving the weak link around the bus". Rufus (PJ) said that to me in the pits back in 68. Quote has been sanitized for public consumption.

 

[Duke Mk1a]

but what difference does moving it to the other side make ?. Is it torque loading ?

From what I remember of this issue from the bits of info I have read over the years.....the panhard rod is meant to stop lateral movement. The MkI location the lateral movement is pulling away from the mount which is why they all rip out. The proper mounting location would be that the lateral movement presses against the rod and thus the mount. Thats why they flipped the rod mounting location in the MKII.

 

[cadreamn67]

I am about as far from a chassis design engineer as anyone can possibly be. That said, I have also heard the rod is to control lateral movement. That is to say keep the body centered over the axle. Unless you are making only turns in one direction (circle track?), it would not make a difference on which side the rod is mounted. In a turn in one direction you would get compression and in the other you would get tension in the rod and mount. Hence the "weak link around the bus" critique. But maybe I am applying limited logic where none applies. Gene

 

[Duke Mk1a]

I think it is torque centric, not momentum. The torque from the engine would only be applied in one direction.

 

[cadreamn67]

But isn't engine torque a longitudinal force, causing axle leaf spring distortion in a vertical plane and thus wheel hop? The axle is going to rotate in the same direction regardless of which side the rod is mounted, isn't it?
Again, to keep the axle and body centered, the rod helps control the lateral shift from centrifical forces,which cause the leaf springs to distort sideways plus the effects on centering of body roll.
Or so it all seems to me. Gene

 

[0neoffive]

Grab her by the panhard !

OK Mal:
Send me a PM w/your current E-mail and I'll take some pics with some tape measured numbers. The MK 1 panhard location comes down at a slight angle from behind the X and did create a behavior difference in hard corners whether turning right or left. I became very aware of this because of my nasty drifting habits, and, learned to be more cautious in a tight right. The MK II panhard runs nicely horizontal and almost dead over the X, keeping the "felt" behavior more consistant.
Keep in mind that all of this has changed from my days of running rampant on narrow rayon tyres. Sticky broad radials come with a whole bunch of other engineering ponders. r