High HP Tiger guys..............

[Tiger tamer]

Have you got any pics of the progress on the rear rails? I'm sure the CAT board would be interested in a quick photo diary of the efforts you have undertaken with your car.

Michael. The panel beater has been on holiday for a couple of weeks so not a lot has been done. I will start a seperate thread with pic's of the bodywork etc.

I understood the panhard rods function the same as Gene, but thought that the way the wieght comes off the right rear of the car under hard acceleration may have some effect on the way the p rod functions with spirited driving.

Oneoffive, have done and thanks.

 

[Duke Mk1a]

The most reply's to a question since Jan 3rd 2001.........keep it up guys!

Yet to be addressed is wheels and tires. What is the biggest that will fit? I am planning on 15" wheel that the Willwood brakes will fit into. How big can I go in back...7", 8"? What is the required offset for such wheels? I would like staggered front because I do not want that much rubber up front....15" by 6?

 

[michael-king]

Duke,

might be worth splitting the thread up so we dont end up in different tangents.. maybe ask the wheels question in a different thread.

However answer for now, I think with 15" wheels you will not get bigger than 6" on the front keeping the wheels inside the lips and without trimming the vallence. I'd guess that keeping with normal offsets you will not go much wider than 7" on the rear.

Of course tyres will also impact on all of this. I would not run wider than 205 on the front (i know some do.. i personally went with 195) i have seen people running 215-225 on the rears.. i would be rolling the lip for that. especially if you are running 7" rims.

Dale should know good sizes that you can run.. ask him what size rims and tyres he recomends for his panasports 15" he sells and what offsets. Then if you decide to try another wheel like the PS halibrands or VTO retros you at least have a starting point for offset and width to discuss.

 

[chirodoc]

TRACTION MASTER BUSHINGS

IN THE SEPTEMBER ISSUE OF HOT ROD MAGAZINE UNDER TECH Q&A JIM FROM COLARADO ASKES HOW DO I ELIMINATE WHEEL HOPIN MY MONOLEAF 68 CAMERO ? THE RECOMENDATION IS CALVERT RACING CALTRAC BARS, WHICH ARE TRACTION MASTERS WITH HEIM JOINTS ON THE ENDS FOR SETTING PINION ANGLE PRELOAD. EXPENSIVE -YES-. ON THEIR WEBSITE THEY TALK ABOUT POLYURATHANE BUSHINGS ELIMINATING KINETIC ENERGY BUILD UP AS WITH RUBBER BUSHINGS. WALA -ORIGINAL TRACTION MASTER COMPANY LISTS POLY URETHANE BUSHINGS ON THEIR WEBSITE.
I REPLACED MY BUSHINGS A LONG TIME AGO WITH THE CAT RUBBER BUSHINGS, WHICH DIDN'T HELP MY MASSIVE WHEEL HOP IN 1ST GEAR.
I INSTALLED THE DAN WALTERS TORQUE ARM. IT STOPPED WHEEL HOP IMMEDIATELY! I STILL HAVEN'T PLAYED WITH THE PRELOAD ADJUTMENTS. THE LEFT REAR BITES BETTER THAN THE RIGHT WHEEL AND THE CAR DRIFTS TO THE RIGHT WHEN I DROP THE HAMMER AT 4000 RPM.
TO OTHERS WHO HAVE REAR WHEELHOP TRAMP AND DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE $$$ FOR DAN'S TORQUE ARM, POLY URETYHANE TRACTION MASTER BUSHINGS MIGHT FIX YOUR PROBLEM. GOOD LUCK.

 

[Duke Mk1a]

THE CAR DRIFTS TO THE RIGHT WHEN I DROP THE HAMMER AT 4000 RPM.

I have the torque arm installed and I noticed that too. I was getting ready to check the front end for anything loose. So is this common with the torque arm?

 

[michael-king]

I have the torque arm installed and I noticed that too. I was getting ready to check the front end for anything loose. So is this common with the torque arm?

I think I recall with the stock tiger if the clutch is dumped the car moves off to 1 side, the torque arm wont stop the torque steer from side to side.. just the torque wind up on the rear springs that causes the axel hop.

For a straight take off.. LSD...

 

[Duke Mk1a]

For a straight take off.. LSD...

I have an Auburn Gear LSD.

 

[TigerBlue]

That single line of black rubber

Or burnouts 101

Remember power braking Dads Lincoln and laying down rubber on the right rear only? This happens with an open dif (no LSD or Posi) because the power in the engine is transmitted to the differential in a turning motion. Top of the drive-shaft moving to the left round and round.


Inertia - all the weight of the car wants to remain at rest and resists. The pinion and ring gear are central to this torque and the whole dif would just spin (left) if not for the surface of the road and the left wheel and axel (lever) which holds fast absorbing some of that power and forcing most of it to rotate the ring gear and turn the center section hopefully also the wheels and the car accelerates. The left wheel gets planted by torque and the right wheel is slightly unloaded. The power takes the path of least resistance and that is the right tire patch.

Enter the LSD or Posi unit. The right tire patch is still the weaker link to the road but the LSD/Posi does not let the right side spin off on its own. This is an effective band-aid allowing power to drive the left wheel too. Does not change the fact that the car has more traction on the left rear. Nothing I am aware of that fixes this.

That's why you need a driver that will drive.

Rick

 

[michael-king]

I have an Auburn Gear LSD.

Duke did you use:

http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarket/product_details.aspx?SKU=Dana 44&ReturnURL=%2faftermarket%2fproduct_listing.aspx%3fCategory%3d6d3471fd-0c7c-4e17-b2c5-bbef31e7110e%26page%3d1%26pagesize%3d9%26text%3d%26EPCString1%3d%26EPCString2%3d%26EPCString3%3d

 

[cobrakidz]

Duke,


However answer for now, I think with 15" wheels you will not get bigger than 6" on the front keeping the wheels inside the lips and without trimming the vallence. I'd guess that keeping with normal offsets you will not go much wider than 7" on the rear.

Of course tyres will also impact on all of this. I would not run wider than 205 on the front (i know some do.. i personally went with 195) i have seen people running 215-225 on the rears.. i would be rolling the lip for that. especially if you are running 7" rims.

.

I am running a 15x7 in the rear with a 225 with no rub issues at all.

 

[michael-king]

I am running a 15x7 in the rear with a 225 with no rub issues at all.

corbakidz (name?) not sure if that was a post fom earlier in the thread.. or another? But that would confirm what i was saying re: 7x15 is ok on the back.. on the front is generally the issue. Rears are normally ok due to the inset of the rear end... but if the car is lowered the tyres can catch the inner lip.. easy fix.. trim or roll.. the front valence is a bit more difficult.

 

[chirodoc]

TRACTION MASTERS

IN THE RESPONSES TO MY POST ON TRACTION MASTERS , DAN'S TORQUE ARM AND THE TORQUE STEER OF THE REAR END WHEN YOU DROP THE HAMMER, I REMEMBER (ALONG TIME AGO) WE COULD ALTER THE TORQUE STEER AT THE DRAG STRIP BY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE 4 BAR, 4 LINK REAR SUSPENSION. TODAYS DISCUSSION MADE ME THINK ABOUT USING THE TRACTION MASTER URETHANE BUSHINGS ON THE EXISTING TRACTION MASTERS ( WHICH ARN'T DOING ANYTHING) ONLY ON ONE SIDE AND WORN OUT RUBBER BUSHINGS ON THE OTHE SIDE IN AN ATTEMPT TO ALTER THE TORQUE STEER AT THE REAR END ! FOOD FOR THOUGHT !

 

[cadreamn67]

Are we talking bolt on or weld on Traction Masters here? I am thinking the bolt on style, which seem the better recommended version, would not be much involved in the torque steer issues, or at least not nearly as much. That being because there is only the one bushing material at the axle and they are loosely clamped at the front end. What about urethane bushings versus rubber bushings in the leaf springs having an effect?

Thanks, Gene

 

[chirodoc]

TRACTION MASTERS

GENE-
I HAVE THE ORIGINAL WELD ON TRACTION MASTERS THAT CAME ON THE CAR BACK IN 1966, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE BEEN REWELDED WHEN THE FRONT MOUNTS TORE CHUNKS OF CROSSMEMBER OUT AS A RESULT OF AUTOCROSSING. ROGER

AFTER DIGGING A LITTLE DEEPER ON THE TRACTION DEVICES I FOUND A POST IN 11/24/2008 AT TE/TA FORUM BY "TWIN TURBO TIGER", JERRY PORSHE AND "T-GRRR" BOB HOKANSON. BOB DEFERRED TO THE WEBSITE OF "HOT RODS AND HEMIS.COM/TRACTION.HTML" FOR HOW TO MAKE A "CALTRAC" TRACTION DEVICE, AS SOLD BY CALVERT RACING. TWIN TURBO JERRY PORSCH ATTESTED TO THE EFFIENCY OF THE DEVICE AND HOW IT BROKE THE ORIGINAL SPRING LEAF NEAR THE SPRING EYE ! (BUT WITH 2 TURBOS AND SLICKS HE HAS BROKEN LOTS OF PARTS GETTING WHERE HE IS TODAY). MAYBE JERRY OR BOB WILL JOIN THE DISCUSSION ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T IN THE REAL WORLD. ROGER

 

[Duke Mk1a]

chirodoc

Please stop using all caps. Makes it hard to read.

Thanks!

 

[Tiger tamer]

AFTER DIGGING A LITTLE DEEPER ON THE TRACTION DEVICES I FOUND A POST IN 11/24/2008 AT TE/TA FORUM BY "TWIN TURBO TIGER", JERRY PORSHE AND "T-GRRR" BOB HOKANSON. BOB DEFERRED TO THE WEBSITE OF "HOT RODS AND HEMIS.COM/TRACTION.HTML" FOR HOW TO MAKE A "CALTRAC" TRACTION DEVICE, AS SOLD BY CALVERT RACING. TWIN TURBO JERRY PORSCH ATTESTED TO THE EFFIENCY OF THE DEVICE AND HOW IT BROKE THE ORIGINAL SPRING LEAF NEAR THE SPRING EYE ! (BUT WITH 2 TURBOS AND SLICKS HE HAS BROKEN LOTS OF PARTS GETTING WHERE HE IS TODAY). MAYBE JERRY OR BOB WILL JOIN THE DISCUSSION ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T IN THE REAL WORLD. ROGER

Here is the link. I found this a while ago. I know people who have cal-tracs are very happy with the way they perform.

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

 

[cadreamn67]

This is exciting stuff. That link on how to build your own is priceless, I can't thank you enough for posting it.

It occurs to me I am already halfway there in making a set of Cal-trac equivalents. I mistakenly bought some weld on Traction Masters for a Mustang several years ago and still have then. So I already have the bracket I would need for the underaxle connection. Has 2 inch distance from bottom of plate to center of pivot hole. Could shim it if I end up needing more. The arm (1 inch OD) already has everything welded on for pivot, bushing, etc at that end. I just need to fabricate the bell crank pieces, and cut arm to length and weld in the adjustable bell crank mounting end and I am there!

Now two questions, what is the considered opinion of the forum as to whether cal-tracs or torque arms are better and why? Also, any concerns whether or not a home made version of cal-tracs would be strong enough for a 347 stroker motored Tiger?

Cheers, Gene

 

[michael-king]

Gene,

From what i understand the cal tracs while superior to the TM's are difficult to get to work on a road sunbeam. IIRC the geometry to get them to work right would have them very close to the ground and cause clearence issues on a street car. There are some guys in the intermarque series in the Uk who run them.. if you look at the pics they sit very low where they mount at the front (I think chris beighton and jackie chocraine have them)

The torque arm seems to get nothing but good feedback, and i believe Dan has modified it several times from the oringal version with better bushings etc.... each to the ir won.. do your research and measurements, a stock ride height with original tall tryes etc might make it ok.

 

[Duke Mk1a]

The torque arm seems to get nothing but good feedback, and i believe Dan has modified it several times from the oringal version with better bushings etc.... each to the ir won.. do your research and measurements, a stock ride height with original tall tryes etc might make it ok.

I am very happy with the torque arm. It does not need any clearance as it completely at the differential level and higher.

Applying the 416 HP to it, the car just shoots forward with not much front end lift and some drift to the right. Not a single wheel hop. I have not seen or felt any issues while braking hard.

I can highly recommend the torque arm. For $285 shipped, its a steal.

Combined with Toyo tires, you better be ready when you push the loud pedal as you are on a catapult.

 

[zero2toy]

I am very happy with the torque arm. It does not need any clearance as it completely at the differential level and higher.

Applying the 416 HP to it, the car just shoots forward with not much front end lift and some drift to the right. Not a single wheel hop. I have not seen or felt any issues while braking hard.

I can highly recommend the torque arm. For $285 shipped, its a steal.

Combined with Toyo tires, you better be ready when you push the loud pedal as you are on a catapult.

Hello Duke,

I am Gene's son.

So my question really is, where/who could I send $285?

Anthony